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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-16-2004, 09:56 PM
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RE: Stolen Honor New Attack on Kerry

In which country? The US or Iraq?

Why isn't the press making a story of this out and out lying convention speech? It boggles the mind and really makes me think this whole thing is being fixed.
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-16-2004, 09:59 PM
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RE: Stolen Honor New Attack on Kerry

Does that mean a civil war earlier than 2005 is better? When does and uprising by "insurgents" become a civil war? If we were not propping the anti-insurgents they would be gone already. Jim
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-16-2004, 10:00 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Stolen Honor New Attack on Kerry

Both.

It just hit the news today. Give it another 24-48 hours to percolate. If it's not big news by Monday I'll make a call.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-16-2004, 10:03 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Stolen Honor New Attack on Kerry

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JimSmith - 9/16/2004 11:59 PM

Does that mean a civil war earlier than 2005 is better? When does and uprising by "insurgents" become a civil war? If we were not propping the anti-insurgents they would be gone already. Jim
Damn you Jim! Always pointing out the obvious.
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-16-2004, 10:34 PM
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RE: Stolen Honor New Attack on Kerry

The Civil War by 2005 is spin. They are already in a Civil War. The June 30 handover was just another Mission Accomplished debacle. I am also hearing from some friends that troop morale is way down over there, and that is being covered up too. Its ended up like I said in April - we have an Army that pretty much just stands around waiting to get shot, and the Iraqis are figuring out that 138,000 of us verses 25,000,000 of them, random bullets become an awesome weapon against an invader. They are figuring out that its easy to stand up, take a quick shot, and high tail it, and if a few hundred people out of the 25 mil are doing it all the time, the occupier can be defeated. Casualty figures are going to bring it all home.
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-17-2004, 08:39 AM
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RE: Stolen Honor New Attack on Kerry

Kirk,

My point exactly. Look at the news today or everyday from Iraq. The "insurgents" are controlling the pace, location and intensity of the war. By any measure we are unable to effectively take control. Their measure of success is off the charts for us - they merely need to kill atleast as many of the rest of the population opposing them (Americans are obviously more desireable targets, but it seems any old Iraqi will fill the bill too) as their suicide squads consist of to be ecstatic about their success. It sure sounds like a civil war to me, but with so much invested in the spin generated by the use of "insurgents" instead, I doubt anyone will voluntarily change the terminology to be more accurate in the near term. Jim
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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-17-2004, 09:53 AM
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RE: Stolen Honor New Attack on Kerry

The media won't call it a Civil War - the have outdated definition of it, that one side will form militias, make public speeches and fight pitched battles. Technology makes that impossible, so the war will be fought as we are seeing it be fought. The strategy is to look at your enemy's house of cards, and put your resources into pulling one or two out. In Iraq, that's easy. Kill the police recruits and collaborators, disrupt the oil outflow, and terrorize the occupier. As long as there is major support in the civilian pouplulation, they cannot be defeated using conventional forces.

Its a terrorist's civil war, and we have truly converted goat farmers into to terrorists, terrorists who have no part in the global war on terror yet could now become allies of the global jihadists. The whole thing is turning into a debacle.
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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-17-2004, 10:01 AM
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RE: Stolen Honor New Attack on Kerry

I just saw a local interview with McCain a few minutes ago and he was just shaking his head. He's hopeful that all of this crap will taper off to some degree after the election, but I'm sure he's not holding his breath...

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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-17-2004, 10:15 AM
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RE: Stolen Honor New Attack on Kerry

Its looking like the leaked CIA report might be getting some legs. I have never seen clearer proof af a president caught in an outright lie of this magnitude since Nixon. What are they waiting for, are the hoping they can find his jizz stain on the report or something? The media makes me sick. Months of swift boats and guard docs, and when something that directly shows how we have a president whose entire approach to govenment is disinformation and lies, nobody is running with it. According to this document, the President's convention speech was forged.
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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-17-2004, 08:55 PM
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RE: Stolen Honor New Attack on Kerry

News report says Navy has reviewed Kerry's medals and post active duty protests and concluded the medals were awarded in compliance with Navy procedures of the time, and that none of his post war activities waranted further investigation. Jim

"Judicial Watch had requested in August that the Navy open an investigation of the matter, but Route said in an internal memo obtained by The Associated Press that he saw no reason for a full-scale probe.


"Our examination found that existing documentation regarding the Silver Star, Bronze Star and Purple Heart medals indicates the awards approval process was properly followed," Route wrote in the memo sent Friday to Navy Secretary Gordon England.


"In particular, the senior officers who awarded the medals were properly delegated authority to do so. In addition, we found that they correctly followed the procedures in place at the time for approving these awards."


Some veterans have challenged Kerry's version of the circumstances surrounding the incident that led to his Silver Star award for battlefield heroism, as well as his three Purple Heart medals.


The Silver Star was awarded for his actions in pursuit of enemy forces while commander of swift boat unit PCF-94 in Vietnam in February 1969.


Judicial Watch also asked the Navy inspector general to investigate Kerry's anti-war activities after he returned from Vietnam and left active duty.


The group's president, Tom Fitton, called Route's review a "whitewash" and said Judicial Watch would "appeal as appropriate."


"The Navy IG obviously is afraid of the political ramifications of a thorough investigation into a presidential candidate's service record," Fitton said in a statement.


Route concluded that there was no justification for looking further into the decisions to award the medals or the anti-war activities.


"Conducting any additional review regarding events that took place over 30 years ago would not be productive," he wrote. "The passage of time would make reconstruction of the facts and circumstances unreliable, and would not allow the information gathered to be considered in the context of the time in which the events took place.


"Our review also considered the fact that Senator Kerry's post-active duty activities were public and that military and civilian officials were aware of his actions at the time. For these reasons, I have determined that Senator Kerry's awards were properly approved and will take no further action in this matter."

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