The kids you speak of are mine. And I know you're not going to say anything about them...
Only that I wish what they inflict unto the innocents upon them. If they inflict kindness, then I want kindness showered on them :)
I also wish them to arrive safely and as quickly as humanly possible. They were never meant to go to Iraq.
I had a long reply that I just deleted. You are not worth my time - you're just trying to bait me and suck me into one of your diatribes. Between the BenzGirl disrestpect thing and now the disrespect you show my children - in my opinion you are not worth the sweat that rolls off of my brow. Brick walls are not worth my time. The least you could do is when you post a veiled comment is to get it right - one of my kids is in Korea - y'know, the country we're not even concerned with...
Before the US "invasion"
Don't bother responding. Your comments are ignored.
If you now have to resort to personal insults to somehow convince us that you are correct, so be it, but most know this happens when you don't have the facts on your side.
The South started the War to drive the North out of Southern terrority. The North responded in hopes of defeating the South to eliminate the Confederacy. It is not similar to Iraq at all. Forgive me for being dense as you put it, but your reason for bringing the Civil War into this conversation makes no sense. No one starts a war hoping for good consequences.
Jordan & Kuwait have some of the worst human rights abuses on the planet. Supporting them will continue to make terrorism worse just as it has in Saudi Arabia . They are not moderate governments, but dictatorships where people have few rights.
Turkey refused to support the USA in the war not because of fear of the radicals, but because the people there did not want the USA to prevail in Iraq. The refusal came from the Parliment by vote. You are incorrect on this fact as well.
Finally concerning Iraq, you have jumped from comparing Iraq to the Civil war to the Destruction caused during WWII. LOL (forgotten in your comparison was that WWII was more than 5 years long) Do you honestly believe the complete leveling of German and Japanese cities even remotely compares to the situation in Iraq!?? Last time I looked there were no "Hiroshimas" in Iraq. Now I see why you resorted to the personal attacks.
But I will make one comparison. When VE and VJ were announced, fighting stopped, and the very thoughtful plans of the Truman Administration were put into place. Compare that to the absolute mess that we have from Bush who declared Combat Operation over in March 2003 and then again after turning over the country to the Iraqi's (in name) in June. Americans and Iraqi's are dying there everyday. Sorry, but Bush needs to go. You might think I am dense, but I am smart enough to realize that in order to fix this mess we need to vote Bush back to Texas.
Quote:
MikeV - 8/4/2004 5:38 PM
Are you really this dense?
The South attacked the north. Agreed, the North (the side typically referred to as "us" in conversation) fought back as an effort to, say it with me, "PRESERVE THE UNION." Did you say it slow? Did you get it? Do you really want to keep arguing this?
Jordan, Kuwait, and Turkey are all MODERATE ISLAMIC STATES. As I said. Jordan has already said that they will supply troops to the new government if asked. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3858883.stm
The government of Turkey refused the US in fear radicals striking them in retaliation for helping the US. Just as in Jordan, Turkey will recognize that the Iraqi governement will be an independent entity.
Your last paragraph really shows your ignorance. The ground INVASION began in March of '03. Not even 18 months ago. How long did you think it would take? The one tidbit of history you appear to know is that the south attacked the north. Do you have any idea how long it took to reconstruct and stabalize Japan and Germany? I'll give you a hint, it took many YEARS, and BILLIONS adjusted to today's dollars, 108 billion for Germany alone. And Germany, like Japan were both already highly industrial and had a hell of a lot more infrastructure than Iraq. More people in Iraq have electricity than did with Sadam, Iraq's court system is working, schools are open, including Colleges and Universities, hospitals are working, social services, children are being given vaccinations they never had before, their banking system is working and no longer is bahgdad bob the lone news source in Iraq, there are over 200 private newspapers being printed. And that's only 17 months into the project, give it a few more years.
And Finally, I hope you understand by now that I never compared our civil war with our Regime Change in Iraq. I was simply pointing out that there are good things that come from war despite the reason.
If you now have to resort to personal insults to somehow convince us that you are correct, so be it, but most know this happens when you don't have the facts on your side.
The South started the War to drive the North out of Southern terrority. The North responded in hopes of defeating the South to eliminate the Confederacy. It is not similar to Iraq at all. Forgive me for being dense as you put it, but your reason for bringing the Civil War into this conversation makes no sense. No one starts a war hoping for good consequences.
Jordan & Kuwait have some of the worst human rights abuses on the planet. Supporting them will continue to make terrorism worse just as it has in Saudi Arabia . They are not moderate governments, but dictatorships where people have few rights.
Turkey refused to support the USA in the war not because of fear of the radicals, but because the people there did not want the USA to prevail in Iraq. The refusal came from the Parliment by vote. You are incorrect on this fact as well.
Finally concerning Iraq, you have jumped from comparing Iraq to the Civil war to the Destruction caused during WWII. LOL (forgotten in your comparison was that WWII was more than 5 years long) Do you honestly believe the complete leveling of German and Japanese cities even remotely compares to the situation in Iraq!?? Last time I looked there were no "Hiroshimas" in Iraq. Now I see why you resorted to the personal attacks.
But I will make one comparison. When VE and VJ were announced, fighting stopped, and the very thoughtful plans of the Truman Administration were put into place. Compare that to the absolute mess that we have from Bush who declared Combat Operation over in March 2003 and then again after turning over the country to the Iraqi's (in name) in June. Americans and Iraqi's are dying there everyday. Sorry, but Bush needs to go. You might think I am dense, but I am smart enough to realize that in order to fix this mess we need to vote Bush back to Texas.
You just don't get it. The civil war was fought by the north to "PRESERVE THE UNION." if you want to say eliminate the confederacy so be it. It means the same thing. Regardless the only link I've made between OUR civil war and the war in Iraq is that there are often times benefits of war. In the case of the Civil War it was freedom for blacks. In Iraq we may have originally went to war to rid SaDam of WMD's, but the benefit will be a democracy in the middle east. That's it, I'm done entertaining you on this. No more Civil War talk, I'm sorry I brought it up. I thought you would be able to comprehend the point in my first post, which was very clear. I guess that's not the case.
Moving on...
Kuwait, Jordan, and Turkey are MODERATE-ISLAMIC states. Jordan for instance is a constitutional monachy (much like some European countries, e.g. Noway) and their laws are based on Islamic code and French law. Jordan is moving in the right direction on many issues. Women's rights is just one of them. If you're really intersted in the subject and want to learn more click on this link. http://www.ned.org/publications/arti...Spotlight.html Kuwait is an absolute Monchary, yes, but still a MODERATE ISLAMIC STATE.
Turkey, the reason we were not allowed to stage in Turkey was because they drug their feet. Their parliment took a vote and was 4 votes short of giving us permission. We asked them to vote again, and in the mean time we pulled the $15 Billion dollar aid package we were offering up. We pulled the package when we figured out we didn't need them. The reluctancey by the parliment was because 80% of the population was against the war. When 80% of your population is against something and you do it anyway there will be some pissed of radicals. See my original point.
Japan and Germany, I think this completely exposes you for what you are, a Michael Moore Clone who only speaks of your talking points. You obviously know nothing about Japan and Germany. There was no mass destruction in Japan (save for two cities) bombing over Tokyo was limitted at best. Berlin was beat to hell but much of the country was in relatively good shape considering the war that had been fought. Both countries were still very industriallized. The factories builiding Fockers and Zeros were able to pump out equipment and goods shortly after the war.
There were also insurgents in Germany. A much smaller scale than in Iraq, but there werel, none the less. No doubt that WWII was a different situation, but that fact bodes well for Iraq. Despite the insurgents things are getting done.
Japan and Germany, I think this completely exposes you for what you are, a Michael Moore Clone who only speaks of your talking points. You obviously know nothing about Japan and Germany. There was no mass destruction in Japan (save for two cities) bombing over Tokyo was limitted at best. Berlin was beat to hell but much of the country was in relatively good shape considering the war that had been fought. Both countries were still very industriallized. The factories builiding Fockers and Zeros were able to pump out equipment and goods shortly after the war.
There were also insurgents in Germany. A much smaller scale than in Iraq, but there werel, none the less. No doubt that WWII was a different situation, but that fact bodes well for Iraq. Despite the insurgents things are getting done.
Mike, you might want to check your #s, there were many insurgents in Germany and don't forget, that Japanese soldiers who kept fighting on surrounding islands long after the war was over.
BTW, it was the War of Northern Aggression and it was about "States Rights" which the North didn't want the South to have. Slave states of the North were among the last to stop that despicable way of life.
__________________
Racer BVD,
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should
be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself"
"lieber Nurburgring als Ehering"
(which translates to "rather Nurburgring than a wedding ring")
"Man, being reasonable, must get drunk."
— Lord Byron
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