Driving an american bad ass.. - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-28-2003, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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Re: I'll believe it when I see it. I've heard about the CTS-V, and I don't think it can outhan

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I'll believe it when I see it. I've heard about the CTS-V, and I don't think it can outhandle an M5. Straight line speed, yes... handling, no. Besides, it's a Cadillac. Ewww. I haven't looked into the new STS (because frankly I don't really care what Cadillac does anymore), but the current one is laughable. They should've stuck to making big luxury cars that had jell-o suspensions and huge V8s with rear wheel drive. At least they were good at that. GM/Ford can't beat Mercedes and BMW at their own game... At least not yet. Give them 10-20 years to get some experience with making real sports sedans, and then, maybe. But as it is, they've never made a sports sedan in their entire history as companies. Now, admittedly, the 560 isn't exactly a sports sedan either, but it doesn't object to being driven like one, and it responds to it far better than any American luxury car would. The Japanese have done a good job with Lexus, Infinity, and Acura. I don't think they're on par with Mercedes or BMW, but they're solid, reliable, and in some cases pretty fast... I haven't been in an Acura or an Infinity, but I can't STAND Lexus from a standpoint of something I'd actually drive. They're TOO quiet. TOO efficient. It's like driving a maytag washing machine or something.
this is so funny. my thoughts exactly.

would you mind if i use the term "jell-o" suspensions in one of my upcoming posts (test drive of the crappies: cadillac sts Vs. lincoln town car) ?

thanks

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post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-28-2003, 11:09 AM
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Not at all. Go ahead. It's the best way I can think of to describe them... Although, in po...

Not at all. Go ahead. It's the best way I can think of to describe them... Although, in point of fact, low fat cream cheese has much the same consistency... but I don't think that "low fat cream cheese suspension" has the same effect as "jell-o suspension" [;)][:D]

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post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-31-2003, 10:49 AM
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I think a lot of you guys are too closed minded. If the Cadillacs are gonna be nice, just...

I think a lot of you guys are too closed minded. If the Cadillacs are gonna be nice, just accept them for being nice. True, no one knows if the CTS-V will outhandle the M5, but you can't simply discount it because its American. I don't know what you guys have against Lexus either. They're just as high quality as Mercedes, but more reliable. True, MB does have AMG and other points which I would prefer over Lexus, but Lexi are very high quality vehicles as well. Oh yeah, I have a Lexus and a Mercedes in my garage, so I'm speaking from experience.

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post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-31-2003, 11:03 AM
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It's not an issue of being closed-minded. Cadillacs + Lincolns have ALWAYS been crap compa...

It's not an issue of being closed-minded. Cadillacs + Lincolns have ALWAYS been crap compared to Mercedes (and, in recent years BMW as well), and I see no evidence that they're going to change that anytime soon.

As for the Lexus, I agree with you to an extent- they're well engineered, and they're more reliable than Mercedes, however I would never, ever, ever own one. Why? Because I've been in them. They're awful cars. They're TOO quiet, TOO sterile, TOO disconnected. It's like driving a maytag or something. They have no personality what-so-ever, and I can't stand it. My grandparent's last two S-Class ('03 S600, '00 S500) have also had very little personality, but Lexus have even less.

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post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-31-2003, 02:17 PM
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the cts-v beat the m5's times, with same driver, at the nurburgring. i think it outhandl...


the cts-v beat the m5's times, with same driver, at the nurburgring. i think it outhandles and outperforms the m5. plus it is about 30 grand less and with an aftermarket for the corvette...you could get well into the 500hp range. then you can beat the upcoming v10-powered m5 and e55.

i too agree that many people are close-minded when it comes caddy's or lincolns. but that is the respective companies fault for passed errors and poor products. to them, its called the bottom line. i think you should at least give caddy a chance with major product changes coming in over the next few years. you may still prefer the benz...but give credit where credit is due. i think caddy COULD become the standard of the world. as they used to be in the earlier half of last century.

i love MB products, but honestly, i think they are slipping. the new w211 is a step down from the w210. in all aspects of an automobile, except performance. MB is becoming run by accountants. you can blame that on chrysler. but, chrysler, as is mercedes, was and had always been run by engineers. they were doing quite well. i think MB needs to get their act together and make something that everyone can be proud to own and once again snub their nose at lexus owners. right now, MB owners seem to see the shop quite often and the cars are doing poorly in owner surveys. the w210, w202 are the last good benzes.

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post #26 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-31-2003, 05:32 PM
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To an extent, you're correct... the new Mercedes are not as good as the W140s, 126s, 116s,...

To an extent, you're correct... the new Mercedes are not as good as the W140s, 126s, 116s, etc., but there's a lot of variation between the various models, too. Between myself, my parents, and my grandparents, we've had every S-Class chassis from a 1967 250SE to a 2003 S600. The 600 seems to be much higher quality than the '00 S500 my grandparents had before it, but it's still not quite as good as their '94 S500 or my '86 560SEL... the 600 comes pretty close, but it's still not quite as good.

I think it's mainly the cheaper models that have suffered a loss of quality (although, as I said, even the 600 isn't quite up to the standards of the older 500s/560s). For example, my grandparents also had a '97 or so ML320, which was a decent car, but an awful Mercedes, if that makes any sense. It was pretty well built, had decent reliability, etc., but it was not up to the standards set by the W140, 126, or older cars.

Whether Cadillac was the standard of the world during the '20s and '30s is debateable. Their V16 was impressive, but I don't think that even then, they were as good as the Mercedes of the time. The only American company to ever produce a car that rivaled Mercedes was Dusenberg, IMO. Packard, Cadillac, and Lincoln all came close during the '20s thru the early 50's, but (excepting right after the war, when Mercedes was nearly totally destroyed) they never matched Mercedes. And it's only gone downhill since then. I refuse to take Cadillac or Lincoln seriously until they produce a halfway decent sports sedan. So far, neither has managed to do that. The CTS-V may be one, but since AFAIK, they're not on sale yet, for right now, it doesn't matter.

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post #27 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-03-2003, 04:13 PM
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This is a snobby conversation if I've ever heard one... I don't think there's any de...


This is a snobby conversation if I've ever heard one...

I don't think there's any debate as to the quality of American products. I'm not trying to be mean, but in generalAmerican cars have always attracted their customers through styling and the like, not quality. As for the Caddy/Lincoln debate... you have to realize these cars are being marketed to old people. Old people who want a very smooth ride and care little about anything else. Mercedes has a smooth ride too, but being German, there's going to be more concern for handling and the like as well.

The big 3 have put out some good cars though, I think some of us are just being blinded by preconceived biases and such...
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post #28 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-03-2003, 04:50 PM
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[quote]The big 3 have put out some good cars though[/quote] True, but discounting the C...

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The big 3 have put out some good cars though
True, but discounting the Corvette, Viper, Camaro, Firebird, 5.0L Mustangs, SVO Mustangs, and the Mustang Cobras, the last good car that the U.S. produced was effectively dead by 1974 (Barracuda, Charger, Challenger, GTO, etc. They were all either discontinued or so underpowered that it was pathetic by '74)

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post #29 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-03-2003, 07:55 PM
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True... Ford is coming out with the GT500 though and that's looking like an awesome car....


True... Ford is coming out with the GT500 though and that's looking like an awesome car. Great stylings and incredible performance ratings. Beats out most of the German and Italian cars and is half the price too..
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post #30 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-04-2003, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
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Re: This is a snobby conversation if I've ever heard one... I don't think there's any de

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... As for the Caddy/Lincoln debate... you have to realize these cars are being marketed to old people. Old people who want a very smooth ride and care little about anything else. Mercedes has a smooth ride too, but being German, there's going to be more concern for handling and the like as well.

The big 3 have put out some good cars though, I think some of us are just being blinded by preconceived biases and such...
I agree with you here. It is correct that most of these cars are made for old people. I think i dont like the new design corvettes and transams. In general huge V8s and V12 that produce little racing power is perhaps not my cup of tea.

But this is a nice car, and iam searching for the right price to buy it soon:

1970 Pontiac Firebird



Or formula 400:

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