Silverstone: Webber hits back with commanding win - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-11-2010, 08:48 AM Thread Starter
CH4S Artist
 
Teutone's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 1985 500SEC, 1991 190E 2.6.
Location: Los Angeles / Hannover Germany
Posts: 33,546
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Quoted: 956 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
(Thread Starter)
Silverstone: Webber hits back with commanding win

British Grand Prix

Webber hits back with commanding win
ESPNF1 Staff
July 11, 2010


Mark Webber put his disappointment of yesterday behind him with a barnstorming performance to win the British Grand Prix, dominating from the moment he beat team-mate Sebastian Vettel into the first corner. The gap between him and second-place Lewis Hamilton was five seconds, but had it not been for a safety-car period it would have been far bigger.

In trying to ensure Hamilton did not pass him, Vettel touched wheels with the McLaren in the first corner and headed off with damage to his rear wheel. He battled back through the field to finish seventh.

Behind Webber, who reeled off a succession of fastest laps, Lewis Hamilton exceeded his expectations by taking second, while Jenson Button produced if anything a better drive in taking fourth after starting in 14th and yesterday describing his car as "undriveable".

Nico Rosberg separated the McLarens in taking the third podium spot, keeping out of trouble from start to finish after a good getaway from the grid. Rubens Barrichello impressed to finish fifth for Williams at its home race, ahead of an equally heartening performance by Kamui Kobayashi in the Sauber.

Vettel's drive through the field to seventh was impressive and required bold overtaking manoeuvres on Adrian Sutil, Michael Schumacher and Nico Hulkenberg among others. He was undoubtedly helped by the safety car bunching up the pack, but did very well to manage a set of hard tyres for the entire race. Sutil finished eighth ahead of Schumacher, who again struggled and fell back down the field after a good start.

Not for the first time Fernando Alonso was left fuming after stewards hit him with a controversial drive-through penalty for cutting a corner when passing Robert Kubica. The Ferrari team were then told that Alonso had to let the Renault back through but by that time Kubica had retired with a seized differential. As a result the stewards decided the best course of action was to issue Alonso with a penalty, but the situation was made several times worse for the Spaniard when the safety car came out and bunched up the pack behind him. As a result, when he came into the pits to serve his punishment he dropped down to 15th and out of contention for points.

He then started a spirited drive back through the field, but even that was cut short when Tonio Liuzzi tagged his left-rear tyre as he passed him and punctured it. Felipe Massa in the other Ferrari also had a terrible race, after contact with Alonso at the start shredded his right-rear tyre. He made some progress back through the field but a spin 12 laps from the end forced him to pit again for tyres and meant he finished the race 15th. As if to prove a point, Alonso set the fastest lap of the race on his last lap.

Behind Massa, the two Lotuses finished a lap down but ahead of Timo Glock in the Virgin and the two HRTs of Karun Chandhok and Sakon Yamamoto. Among the DNFs, Pedro de la Rosa retired with disintegrating rear bodywork (which caused the safety car), Jaime Alguersuari beached his Toro Rosso in the gravel at Luffield and Lucas di Grassi retired with a mechanical problem.
© ESPN EMEA Ltd.

Feeds Feeds: ESPNF1 Staff
Teutone is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-11-2010, 08:52 AM Thread Starter
CH4S Artist
 
Teutone's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 1985 500SEC, 1991 190E 2.6.
Location: Los Angeles / Hannover Germany
Posts: 33,546
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Quoted: 956 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
(Thread Starter)
2010 FORMULA 1 SANTANDER BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Formula 1? - The Official F1? Website
09 - 11 Jul 2010
2010 FORMULA 1 SANTANDER BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Pos No Driver Team Laps Time/Retired Grid Pts
1 6 Mark Webber RBR-Renault 52 1:24:38.200 2 25
2 2 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 52 +1.3 secs 4 18
3 4 Nico Rosberg Mercedes GP 52 +21.3 secs 5 15
4 1 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 52 +21.9 secs 14 12
5 9 Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 52 +31.4 secs 8 10
6 23 Kamui Kobayashi BMW Sauber-Ferrari 52 +32.1 secs 12 8
7 5 Sebastian Vettel RBR-Renault 52 +36.7 secs 1 6
8 14 Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 52 +40.9 secs 11 4
9 3 Michael Schumacher Mercedes GP 52 +41.5 secs 10 2
10 10 Nico Hulkenberg Williams-Cosworth 52 +42.0 secs 13 1
11 15 Vitantonio Liuzzi Force India-Mercedes 52 +42.4 secs 20
12 16 Sebastien Buemi STR-Ferrari 52 +47.6 secs 16
13 12 Vitaly Petrov Renault 52 +59.3 secs 15
14 8 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 52 +62.3 secs 3
15 7 Felipe Massa Ferrari 52 +67.4 secs 7
16 18 Jarno Trulli Lotus-Cosworth 51 +1 Lap 21
17 19 Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Cosworth 51 +1 Lap 18
18 24 Timo Glock Virgin-Cosworth 50 +2 Lap 19
19 20 Karun Chandhok HRT-Cosworth 50 +2 Lap 23
20 21 Sakon Yamamoto HRT-Cosworth 50 +2 Lap 24
Ret 17 Jaime Alguersuari STR-Ferrari 44 +8 Lap 17
Ret 22 Pedro de la Rosa BMW Sauber-Ferrari 29 +23 Laps 9
Ret 11 Robert Kubica Renault 19 +33 Laps 6
Ret 25 Lucas di Grassi Virgin-Cosworth 9 +43 Laps 22
Teutone is offline  
post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-12-2010, 12:57 AM Thread Starter
CH4S Artist
 
Teutone's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 1985 500SEC, 1991 190E 2.6.
Location: Los Angeles / Hannover Germany
Posts: 33,546
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Quoted: 956 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
(Thread Starter)
How Red Bull Clipped Their Wings

Planet F1 | Formula One | News, Standings, Results, Features, Video

How Red Bull Clipped Their Wings

Monday 12th July 2010


Were Red Bull really so unfair to Mark Webber this weekend? Though the critics seem to think otherwise, it was a complex and difficult decision - and if it was wrong, it was wrong for reasons other than those entirely sporting...

So What's A Team Boss To Do?
It's easy to criticise Christian Horner's decision to remove the new front wing from Mark Webber's car and put it on Seb Vettel's, far harder to pinpoint a flawless solution. Damned if he did, probably and potentially dammed if he didn't.

Hindsighters have suggested that Horner ought not to have given either driver the sole new wing available, reasoning that the Bulls had a sufficient pace advantage for Horner to play safe and scrupulously fair. But what would have been said if Hamilton or Alonso had snuck ahead of one or both Bulls on the first lap? It's not to difficult to imagine Horner being criticised for weak leadership that harmed the team in deference to the ego of a paid employee. Though his decision was perceived to be ultimately unfair against Webber, it would have been particularly unfair to the employees who had worked around the clock to produce the part then not to use it.

Red Bull were justifiably pilloried for the ridiculously one-sided analysis of Vettel's collision into Webber in Turkey but their team boss' summary of his predicament deserves a fairer hearing than it has been given in the clamour to depict the Australian as a wronged man:

"We are pushing as hard as we can to produce the fastest cars that we can. Sometimes decisions have to be made.

"We found ourselves in a situation we didn't want to be in with one wing, that we wanted to run - and whichever side of the garage it was going to go to, one side was going to be unhappy. I can't cut it in half."

He can't and though the criteria for selection used by Horner, the World Championship standings of both his drivers, has also been criticised, it is difficult to identify a better or fairer method of selection. As the old saying goes, the table doesn't lie.

Better, perhaps, to have left the wing on Webber's car and told Vettel to make do. But if the viewpoint is taken that Vettel had lost out through no fault of his own, then favouring the driver higher in the World Championship was not, sporting-wise, the diametrically unfair decision it has been depicted to have been.

But It's The Perception Of The Justice That Made It Unjust
Another layer of sympathy for Horner came with the disclosure that Adrian Newey was "very keen" for the new part to be run, thereby effectively Horner into making a straight choice. Ducking the issue wasn't a choice.

Newey, Vettel and Marko - but not Horner - are the three Red Bull employees who are essentially unsackable and the Englishman's weight of influence is considerable within the team. That he pressed Horner into making a choice between Vettel and Webber is all the more noteworthy for his experience of tempestuous team-mate relationships at McLaren and his pre-race interview with the BBC on the grid in Istanbul in which he discussed using that experience to counsel Horner in diminishing the potential for team-mate disharmony. Hmm.

Indeed, if Horner and his team are to be criticised then it is for failing to respect the court of perception. Adamant that Vettel does not receive preferential treatment, Red Bull simply don't get the 'favouritism' controversy that has now engulfed them. Yet that is the perception and it seems at best to have been naïve of the team not to have factored into the equation such considerations. Red Bull have been accused of being a political team; the mistake they made this weekend, however, was not playing politics. In an entirely sporting sphere, Horner's decision was not unreasonable. In the wider sphere of brand awareness, it was an inevitable PR disaster. That was the team's real mistake.

Moreover, hindsight reveals Horner's decision critically misjudged the mood of Mark Webber. Whereas David Coulthard and Rubens Barrichello silently simmered over their perceived demotion to number two, the Aussie has confronted it head on to further diminish the team's reputation with the public at large. Red Bull haven't invested millions of pounds in F1 for this sort of publicity.

A Number Two To Vettel Or A Number Two In The Standings?
Webber's frustration and aggrievement boiled over in the press conference and culminated in the remark that has dominated post-race coverage. But did he really say, as headlined by a fabulous website not a million miles away, that he 'didn't' sign to become Seb's number two?'.

Judge for yourself from the quotes in their full context:

'Q: (Ian Gordon - News of the World) Mark, fantastic win, thoroughly deserved. Given Red Bull have said that whoever leads the championship will have priority, will you get the better bits on the car in Hockenheim?

MW: Should do. I should do. Yesterday was a really unique situation. It was the first time that the team had really had one component. Honestly I would never have signed a contract again for next year if I believed that that was the way it was going to be going forward.'

So Webber wouldn't have signed a contract extension if he knew that, whenever the team only had one new part available, it would be given to the driver who be leading the Championship? That's not all the same thing as saying he didn't sign to become Vettel's number two. It's not even close.

Put in the context of that hint of petulance, another remark by Webber in the press conference worth highlighting was his claim that "some of the drivers offered me some front wings from their cars on the parade lap but I said I would stick with what I've got. Seb didn't but some of the other guys tried to offer me a front wing."

Unnecessary, Mark, unnecessary. The other drivers weren't really offering their front wings, no more than anyone would expect Vettel to offer Webber his. This was nothing more than point-scoring from the Aussie and an unedifying moment that he should regret. If Vettel had uttered something, he would have been accused of being a brat.

Another Small Detail
Perhaps the irony of the whole matter is that the controversy over the single wing seemingly effected Vettel more adversely on the track than it bothered Webber. The Aussie had pace to spare while Vettel's preoccupation with his team-mate off the line was a substantial root in his downfall. Wheelspin on the line cost him some critical yards in the sprint to the first corner, but had Vettel kept a straight line off the line, instead of veering across the track into the line of Webber, then might still have cruised to victory.

Once again, a small detail had a big influence on proceedings. It is normally the case that the drivers starting on an even-numbered grid-slot suffer off the line but it was the second-starting Webber and the fourth-starting Hamilton who flew away while the pole-sitter Vettel and third-sitting Alonso both became bogged down. Silverstone hosted an unusually high number of support races this weekend and the rubber they laid down on the circuit may have been a critical factor in determining the identity of the race winner. Small details, big business.

Webber Cannot Stay Distracted For Long
Oh, and there was a race run on Sunday.

Though he failed to cover himself in glory in the hour after the race, Webber's "appointment with karma" was demonstrably the driving force behind his faultless victory. Harnessing frustration to maximise performance is a special talent that is generally exclusive to elite sportsmen. The trick is to know when to stop drinking from that particular well before paranoia seeps in.

The Aussie has never driven better and is at the peak of his powers. From his perspective, it is almost certainly now or never for a World Championship and if there is any reason to highlight his post-race petulance then it is because he is entering new territory and this was the first evidence of his character fraying. As yet, however, there's been no evidence of any fraying where it matters. Number two or joint number one, it's a measure of his advance this season that, regardless of the internal politics at red Bull, at the halfway stage he has as much a chance of winning the World Championship as his team-mate.

Pete Gill
Teutone is offline  
post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-12-2010, 01:04 AM Thread Starter
CH4S Artist
 
Teutone's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 1985 500SEC, 1991 190E 2.6.
Location: Los Angeles / Hannover Germany
Posts: 33,546
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Quoted: 956 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
(Thread Starter)
Webber to Horner 'not bad for a numbe 2 driver.'

The wing issue was still clearly on Webber's mind as he told team boss Christian Horner that the win was "not bad for a number two driver..." as they talked on the radio on the slowing down lap.
Teutone is offline  
post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-12-2010, 03:03 AM
Administrator
 
RedLiner's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2006
Vehicle: 1998 Pano SL500; 1993 SL500; 2005 ML270cdi
Location: Spain / Gibraltar
Posts: 7,333
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Quoted: 372 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teutone View Post
The wing issue was still clearly on Webber's mind as he told team boss Christian Horner that the win was "not bad for a number two driver..." as they talked on the radio on the slowing down lap.
After the race when Christian Horner was interviewed, he looked very uncomfortable, and shuffled from one foot to the other when asked if Mark was now the Nº1 driver, and would he now get preference for upgrades.
Eddie Jordan also asked him some very direct questions about the rift in the team, only to get the response "We won the Silverstone F1" from Horner.

No trees were harmed creating this message, however some electrons were very inconvenienced.
RedLiner is online now  
post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-12-2010, 05:02 AM
Lifetime Premium Member
 
A&L's300SL's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2006
Vehicle: 87 300SL "Roadster" 86 420SEL "Limo" 89 420SEL The "New" Limo 87 190E 2.6 fact bodykit
Location: Mornington Peninsula Vic Australia
Posts: 1,576
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
What did Pete Gill have to say about Vettel with the "looney" waving his finger after he nailed Webber?

Turkey wasn't the first time Vettel had taken him out.

Vettel is the golden child of the team who stuffed the start and tried to make Webber back off, only to have Webber come back on him and take the apex.

Then with Hamilton in the mix and getting the puncture he lapped like he was on a Sunday drive, only to nuckle down whe the gift of a safety car woke him up. I just wish Webber had the chance to lap him before the safety car came out. That would have been hilarious.

His frustration with failing to pass Sutil for so many laps resulted in him hitting him!

Andrew

"That's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live forever"- Lemmy

A&L's300SL is offline  
post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-12-2010, 06:28 AM
SSL
BenzWorld Extremist
 
Date registered: Jul 2005
Vehicle: R107 300SL; 1990 500SL (R129);2001 R170 230SLK
Location: England
Posts: 1,035
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by A&L's300SL View Post
What did Pete Gill have to say about Vettel with the "looney" waving his finger after he nailed Webber?

Turkey wasn't the first time Vettel had taken him out.
YouTube - Fuji 2007 - Vettel crashes into Webber On board HD

Vettel is the golden child of the team who stuffed the start and tried to make Webber back off, only to have Webber come back on him and take the apex.

Then with Hamilton in the mix and getting the puncture he lapped like he was on a Sunday drive, only to nuckle down whe the gift of a safety car woke him up. I just wish Webber had the chance to lap him before the safety car came out. That would have been hilarious.

His frustration with failing to pass Sutil for so many laps resulted in him hitting him!


Andrew,

Guess Vettel has still to learn the lesson that you under-estimate or write-off an Aussie at your peril.

Huge cheers in our household when Mark toughed it out with SV going into turn one and even bigger ones when SV snaked all over the place to rejoin the track in virtually last place.

SV's obviously quick but needs reminding of two F1 cliches:

to be first, first you have to finish (Turkey)
the race isn't won on the first lap ( Silverstone).

Like Button last year this is Mark's first real chance to show what he can do in a race winning car. Let's hope he gets to race on equal footings.

Last edited by SSL; 07-12-2010 at 09:26 AM. Reason: Spelling
SSL is offline  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-12-2010, 06:50 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Rmac58's Avatar
 
Date registered: Nov 2007
Vehicle: 2013 MINI Copper S Clubman, '84 300CD-weekend car
Location: central Va
Posts: 10,152
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
I think the decision was an appropriate one, I would have done the same thing, new components to the higher points driver.
One of the commentators mentioned the decision came from the fella writing the checks, taking Horner out of the equation.

'13 MINI Cooper Clubman S-daily driver
'84 CD-weekender!
Rmac58 is offline  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-12-2010, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
CH4S Artist
 
Teutone's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 1985 500SEC, 1991 190E 2.6.
Location: Los Angeles / Hannover Germany
Posts: 33,546
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Quoted: 956 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
(Thread Starter)
Next Time have the Drivers Flip a Coin

Webber drove a great race. The increasingly public drama can't be good for the team, and perhaps the reason why Red Bull is neither leading the constructors, nor the drivers championship.
When there is only 'one' sample part available, it may be better to have the drivers flip a coin.
Teutone is offline  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-12-2010, 07:26 PM
BenzWorld Member
 
Astin's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jul 2006
Vehicle: R171 SLK 350
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 295
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Redbull - Glory or Nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teutone View Post
Webber drove a great race. The increasingly public drama can't be good for the team, and perhaps the reason why Red Bull is neither leading the constructors, nor the drivers championship.
When there is only 'one' sample part available, it may be better to have the drivers flip a coin.
Well the relations in the team is not the reason why Red Bull are not leading the championship. Sure, it doesn't help but the team culture is the reason. McLaren are simply doing a better job of collecting points consistently. Points are won on Sunday and having the fastest car on Saturday is useless if they can't create a strategy for accumulating points consistently. Even though Red Bull won at Silverstone McLaren collected only one less championship point. McLarens never say die attitude - which is best displayed by Hamilton - is the difference between the two teams.

Andrew.


...oOo...

2010 ML350 CDI, Pirodot Brown


Previous:
2007 SLK 350 Obsidian Black, Beige Leather, 7G
Astin is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Mercedes-Benz Motorsports & Racing

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Similar Threads
    Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
    It’s embarrassing says Webber Teutone Mercedes-Benz Motorsports & Racing 0 03-03-2010 01:33 AM
    Another 107 commanding big dollars at CTS. Fotografa R/C107 SL/SLC Class 5 02-26-2010 04:14 AM
    Webber storms back to net maiden win Teutone Mercedes-Benz Motorsports & Racing 4 07-13-2009 09:32 AM
    "Lame Duck" Nasdaq hits 4.5 year high. Russell 2000 hits historic high. 430 Off-Topic 6 01-07-2006 07:34 PM
    Oil hits 61 a barrell, DOW heads back to 9,000, jobs report shows massive cuts, so what else is new FeelTheLove Off-Topic 8 07-09-2005 10:47 AM

    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome