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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-12-2006, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirill
i watch several moments of Nascar - and did i understand it wrong or is it how it is:

after somebody crashes (usually every 10-15 laps) they bring whole course yellow and everybody who had a lead looses it - than it restarts and guys who were 10-15 seconds behind can overtake.
You forgot the yellows where someone throws a used diaper over the fence and and they have to clean that up. :-)

I have seen races where there were no yellows and races where there were 20 yellows. The bad part of yellows is that it breaks the pace of the race. The good part of the yellows is that it allows very tight racing with much passing and competitive driving. With that however comes simple physics of too much mass in a given space, hence more yellows.

An interesting part of watching very close NASCAR racing is the interaction of the cars and the Bernoulli effect that adds a challenge that is not present in any other form of racing.

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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-12-2006, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
The skill level of the drivers, however is every bit on par with those of Champ Car, IRL, ALMS and I would guess F1. We will soon see. And that was my point.
Funny. Which NASCAR drivers do you believe could step into a F1 car and be competitive? (Most of them would not fit into the cars.)

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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-12-2006, 09:42 PM
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NASCAR boring??

Both F1 and NASCAR have their advantages, and they both have their disadvantages. I like both, but lean heavily toward F1. However, I can't believe anyone can honestly say that NASCAR is boring after watching a typical example of both. I believe that F1 drivers have -- on average -- more skill. However, that skill is typically only useful on Saturday, and that skill is usually only evident when comparing teammates. In F1, the head engineers are often the most highly paid team employees and their skills (and budgets) typically determine the race winner. The unfortunate fact is that the majority of F1 races are over after qualifying.

You tell me who took pole, and I'll tell you who won. World's fastest parade.

Having said that, I still prefer F1 over NASCAR, but something has to change in F1 or it will eventually go away.
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-13-2006, 03:44 AM
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How about a different points system, with extra points for fastest race lap etc. ?
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-13-2006, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
Yes, some of the circuits are very good in europe but some are no better/worse than Sears Point or the Glen or Daytona or Indy, all which have international respect.
are you kidding me? indy is the worst circuit ever created (especially for Formula 1)!! the glen is a road circuit, and daytona is only popular here in the states. no nascar track has any respect outside of american borders! have you ever even left the states?

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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-13-2006, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by CDeutschler22
are you kidding me? indy is the worst circuit ever created (especially for Formula 1)!! the glen is a road circuit, and daytona is only popular here in the states. no nascar track has any respect outside of american borders! have you ever even left the states?

[D]
I was an F1 and LeMans fan back in the late 60's and have been to many races in Europe and all over North America so, yes, I have been out of the States. Daytona's 24 Hour race has been a international highlight for over 40 years and is on par with any race, as is Sebring.

As for Indy being the worst circuit for F1, I like the circuit because it provides a challenge to the engineers to set the car up for both high speed and slow corners. Most have got it wrong. Having put down a few hot laps on the course in a 911, I have a pretty good idea that the drivers find the course to be a good challenge.

I was, in my comments, referring to Indy's 90 year history as a world class track. It has brought competitors from around the world for years and is VERY respected.

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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-13-2006, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Teutone
How about a different points system, with extra points for fastest race lap etc. ?
I have always thought that P1 Pole should get a point and fast lap should get a point. I also think that P1 needs a bit more spread from P2 for the win.

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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-13-2006, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Case1906
Funny. Which NASCAR drivers do you believe could step into a F1 car and be competitive? (Most of them would not fit into the cars.)
Size aside, Tony Stewart, Jeff Gordon, Kasey Kahne and Kyle Busch would be the four that I would think have the best skill set with Robbie Gordon in that group having IRL experience. That is based on their open wheel history and experience and driving styles.

Looking at the reverse, Christian Fittipaldi had 43 F1 starts and 12 points and failed to do anything in NASCAR. Michel Jourdain had 137 ChampCar starts and has not moved up in NASCAR. Cristiano Da Matta, a peer driver with Tony Stewart when Stewart was driving open wheeled cars went to F1 and was gone within two seasons.

My point being that at the very top levels, NASCAR has some very good drivers as does Champ, IRL, F1, WRC and ALMS. I think Montoya will do well in NASCAR.

As for their size, Stewart is one of the few younger guys who is larger. Funny thing, so is Montoya. Due to some of my work I get pit passes that allow me everywhere at most races and I see just how small most of these guys are NASCAR and F1 alike. I was giving the third place trophy at Mid Ohio in 02 at the CART race to Michael Andretti and it was screaming hot. He about passed out and I was able to hold him up with just two fingers on his shoulder loops until someone could get him a chair.

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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-14-2006, 02:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear
I have always thought that P1 Pole should get a point and fast lap should get a point. I also think that P1 needs a bit more spread from P2 for the win.
Couldn't agree more. Plus, the old points system was better in my opinion. Not enough spread between first and second now.
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-14-2006, 06:11 AM
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Here's some interesting observations from Paul Tracy. Speaking exclusively to Autosport magazine, Paul Tracy - who has raced in the second-tier Busch Series this year – said the transition from a light, rear-engine open wheel car to a heavy front-engine NASCAR car will be a huge test of Montoya's driving skills.

"Montoya can't just go as fast as he can the whole time or he's gonna kill the tires," said Tracy. "It's tough to make the transition because coming up the single-seater ladder you reach corners faster, brake harder, turn in harder, get on the throttle earlier – the whole experience gets more intense the higher you go.

"You get into a NASCAR, and you suddenly have to go back to almost Formula Ford levels of corner speed and braking performance – the whole process slows down.

"Montoya's got to go with that way of driving, not fight against it. I've followed him and, even on ovals, you see how quick he is with the steering. He's got good reactions, quick hands and he drives on instinct, but a NASCAR doesn't respond to that. It responds to finesse, and he's not exactly known as a finesse driver, is he?"

"They have so much understeer built into them," added Tracy. "They call it 'tightness' – that's all you hear: 'my car's too tight, it won't turn in'. You take fuel out of a [open wheel] car for qualifying, right?

"Well in NASCARs, they have so much understeer dialed in that to get the optimum balance for qualifying they fill the fuel tanks up and stick a load of ballast in the trunk to get the tail to move out on the turns, just in order to get the front end to turn in. It's the absolute opposite of what a single-seater racer is used to.

"At the start of a race stint, you want the car as loose [oversteering] as possible because the balance changes so badly over the course of a stint, and you know you're gonna get more and more push – or tightness – as the fuel load comes down and the tires are getting near the end of their life.

"But the important thing is that when it's loose at the start, even if that suits Montoya's driving style, he can't overplay it otherwise he's gonna just burn those tires off, especially with that heavy fuel load. By the end of the stint he won't have grip front or rear, so he's just going to be floating out to the high line and the marbles mid-turn and into the wall on the exit."
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