AMG's Airbag & Integrated Seatbelt Issues - Page 22 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #211 of 285 (permalink) Old 10-31-2013, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
Date registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
WOW - JB seems even more emotionally affected by this subject than I am. Are you aware your only means of addressing MB's denial of acceleration on a frontal collision so far has been "Instead of constantly quoting newton, show us pics of the passenger seat in your crash test"? Are you aware my passenger seat did not 'break' nor 'its locks failed'? I thought this dialogue was starting to resemble similar dialogue from the past. I know I can take a sledge hammer and cause that inboard seat top to bend and also know I'd need a lot more force and time than a hammer impact to fold the bottom outboard side. But you will not understand that for whatever reason you're so emotionally affected by this dialogue. Do you read your own words JB? "Wanna, TOLD, evasive, simple, straw experiment, cast iron, earth shattering revelation...." You sound like a mad-man but more like a donkey to me. The day someone like you actually offers someone like me 'advice' worth $20k is the day I get to ride a flying pig thru hell while eating a Magnum ice-cream bar with Cindy Crawford on my lap . You're taking this all so personally that I recommend you visit a psychologist for some anxiety testing or anger-control treatments. Unless you're making love to the tailpipe of your old Mercedes-Benz's every night since you're reacting as if I said something about your 'ladies'. Whatever the case I'm not going to allow you to waste another minute of my life nor anyone else's reading this thread. Please go harass another thread. It's that simple so shooo, move on, go away, stop pestering us with your disturbing hatred towards me personally. You do realize you're delusional enough to believe I'm going to alter my publication plan over your demands for my crash test details? Pop another prozac, zanex, morphine or whatever it is you take to ease that hate full mind/heart of yours. Your behavior is becoming blatantly queer. Try some more vaseline or maybe some fresh banana peels on those 70's & 80's Benz's tailpipes of yours. It's just material JB, and I'm just dealing with some undeniable physics that your personal intent and/or lack of intelligence will never let you understand. How strange to get so emotional over something you have absolutely nothing to do with? That must suck to live that emotionally charged. And I thought I had it bad contending with this experience. I couldn't imagine experiencing your emotions at my own will over random people's experiences. Up the dosage and get a grip man. It ain't your fight, it ain't your defense. Enjoy what happens next.

Last edited by virage105; 10-31-2013 at 05:14 PM.
virage105 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #212 of 285 (permalink) Old 10-31-2013, 05:11 PM
BenzWorld Senior Member
 
Date registered: Jun 2011
Vehicle: 1999 E320 Sedan
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 449
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon_E View Post
I wonder if this deceased driver had any family, and how they have coped.
Just to clarify: By this I meant, of course, the driver of the limousine.
Simon_E is offline  
post #213 of 285 (permalink) Old 10-31-2013, 05:18 PM
BenzWorld Senior Member
 
Date registered: Jun 2011
Vehicle: 1999 E320 Sedan
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 449
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
And you quoted MB to the effect that:

“The elapsed time from sensing a level of deceleration sufficient for airbag deployment, through full deployment of the airbag, is faster than the blink of an eye.”

If this is the "few ms" statement by MB representatives with which you take issue, then this and the 32ms of *total* deployment time that you measured are obviously two pairs of shoes. See my post above, there is no reason to repeat it.
Simon_E is offline  
post #214 of 285 (permalink) Old 10-31-2013, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
Date registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Simon - I vaguely recall the Limo Driver being survived by a wife and stepchild but to the best of my knowledge they did not take any action against the CL55amg Driver's widow/estate. Not that it was his fault but I did pull the road design from public records and visited that intersection. There was a stop sign in the merge intersection he took at over 35mph. Not that he deserved death over that, but neither did the CL55amg deserve death over an auto-downshift lunge exiting a curve nor the critical injuries that occurred against the steering wheel before his airbag slammed his head against the roof too. The only one that died without any act of their own and any MB-occupant restraint device issues was the CL55amg's rear seat passenger who left a daughter behind and a wife that was in the middle of divorcing him (so she didn't take an action against the Widow or CL55amg's driver's estate either to the best of my knowledge). Don (the CL55amg) driver didn't inform me of the plans he made with the rear seat passenger that night, cause he knew I wouldn't stay a guest at his house with my soon-to-be fiance knowing only three of us were going out on the night before his daughter's Christening. It's amazing how the personal settings can alter the perspective of a physical safety issue so much, for so many. All I'm trying to do is make sure nobody else has to experience my shoes of being slammed against a dashboard before being slammed into the moonroof. It's simply unsurvivable without designing your survival using your own limbs. That's all. Not to hear Mercedes deny acceleration entirely. Who does that?
virage105 is offline  
post #215 of 285 (permalink) Old 10-31-2013, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
Date registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Simon - great point. To clarify 32ms was the timing from contact to the airbag just starting to break thru the vinyl. You still have a clear point. Unfortunately when you consider the other quotes from the MB engineer denying accelerations affect on a collision and that being used to claim I couldn't perceive any of my injuries in 'a few ms', the 32ms plus the time it took to reach full airbag deployment become a lot longer than just 'a few ms'. Acceleration's affect will become apparent when my test at 36mph is held up against any 40mph test (as the airbag deployment sequence should not take longer at 36mph v. 40mph if MB is accurate and acceleration does not affect a frontal collision). It seems like 'a few ms' doesn't apply to any event and unfortunately that means MB's engineers make fraudulent affidavits for use in court which will branch off into another subject of MB's corporate ethics against a sole survivor of their design issue that lead me to be blown backwards by an airbag after a head-on collision.
virage105 is offline  
post #216 of 285 (permalink) Old 11-01-2013, 08:15 AM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
Date registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Moving forward I've gathered full understanding of how the front crumple zones effectiveness can help delay the 2-bumper mounted decelerometer's triggering. It's without doubt that acceleration causes additional crumpling which only further delays airbag triggering. That same acceleration force also delays the ability of the seatbelt coil to sense deceleration and lock, leaving occupants without restraint as they start to take flight towards the dashboard. Then there's the fact that the CL55amg is the only vehicle with >500ftlbs of torque equipped with integrated seatbelts, a feature that has no place in an exotic powered vehicle due to its obvious fail-point causing additional lack of restraint. We touched upon driver responsibility v. manufacturer responsibility and it's beyond doubt a manufacturer is outright fraudulent to deny historically practiced laws of physics, a driver should not be able to so readily alter occupant restraint systems' functionality, and in a $130k vehicle equipped with proximity sensors and drive-by-wire throttle it is appropriate for some existing systems integration to prevent such a readily predictable issue of accelerations affect upon a frontal collision.

With all that covered I have yet to understand how a rear seat passenger reached the dashboard before I did or maybe at the same time I did. I know he was passing me as if the first to take flight (clearly recall him nicking my inboard left top of seat-back with his right shoulder, clearly recall my body rotating to the left and breaking my femur against the center console just has he was making contact straight into the dashboard because my left elbow actually touched his midsection area). So his head reached the dash from the back seat before my knees, left arm and head impacted the dashboard. If the force of acceleration is applied at the rear tires, the rear of the vehicle should be the most delayed vehicle region to reach a full stop. Which tells me that he should have been the last to take flight. The only physics left to consider is the weight of the limo still crumpling the CL55amg after the CL's application of power/acceleration was finally cut off. Since the Limo is substantially heavier than the CL it should have taken longer to dissipate it's force resulting from mass and velocity. I'm thinking out loud and this is the last piece of physics I have yet to comprehend. There was not a single gouge in the asphalt surface so that indicates no other factors helped dissipate vehicle energies (like the rear ends swinging around when acceleration is not applied). As shown by the photos at Realcompany.org - Dedicated to Simple Truth - Home, the rear ends of both vehicles remained planted while their front ends shifted over (completely opposite of what normally happens in a head-on collision when acceleration is not applied). So the limo's force was not dissipated by rear-end rotation, it was absorbed 100% straight into the CL55amg. That also explains why my June 11, 2006 experience involved longer delays of airbag deployment and seatbelt locking than my Sept. 20, 2013 crash test. As designed, any force that encourages the crumpling of a CL55amg will also aid in delaying the occupant restraint systems' functionality. So Mercedes clearly acknowledges such physics by including a 3rd decelerometer mounted to the firewall, yet they deny acceleration's affect altogether and do not integrate their existing systems to trigger occupant restraint systems' functionality upon contact or at least before the firewall sensor is triggered. First step to fixing any of this is acknowledging the fact acceleration produces a force, just as weight of an oncoming vehicle generates additional forces. What a disgrace.
virage105 is offline  
post #217 of 285 (permalink) Old 11-01-2013, 11:10 AM
BenzWorld Senior Member
 
Date registered: Feb 2010
Vehicle: 1983 240D, 1974 240D
Location: RI
Posts: 501
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by virage105 View Post
WOW - JB seems even more emotionally affected by this subject than I am. Are you aware your only means of addressing MB's denial of acceleration on a frontal collision so far has been "Instead of constantly quoting newton, show us pics of the passenger seat in your crash test"?
lol, all im doing is presenting plausible theories based on established facts. Something you have yet to do.

You have multiple accusations against MB, one of which has been your claim that the seat broke. I think its abundantly clear I was specifically addressing that, clear to everyone but you I guess.
Denial of acceleration on a frontal collision has nothing to do with my comments about the passenger seat. Again, you would get a lot more traction in your accusations against MB if you didn't misrepresent their comments in exactly the same way you've misrepresented mine here.

Basically ive asked you for evidence again and again, and still nothing from you.

Quote:
Are you aware my passenger seat did not 'break' nor 'its locks failed'? I thought this dialogue was starting to resemble similar dialogue from the past. I know I can take a sledge hammer and cause that inboard seat top to bend and also know I'd need a lot more force and time than a hammer impact to fold the bottom outboard side.
this was literally what you claimed earlier in the thread. If you are changing your accusations to fit whatever new data you have, appreciate it if you would let us know. Broken seat was a big part of your earlier complaint against MB, now according to you, its not relevant or it didn't happen.

Quote:
But you will not understand that for whatever reason you're so emotionally affected by this dialogue. Do you read your own words JB? "Wanna, TOLD, evasive, simple, straw experiment, cast iron, earth shattering revelation...." You sound like a mad-man but more like a donkey to me.
lol. Its not me who sounds like a madman here. While your insults are amusing, they still aren't new evidence. Haven't seen that yet, but ill keep asking for you to present something tangible. If this is the best you can do, oh well.

Quote:
The day someone like you actually offers someone like me 'advice' worth $20k is the day I get to ride a flying pig thru hell while eating a Magnum ice-cream bar with Cindy Crawford on my lap . You're taking this all so personally that I recommend you visit a psychologist for some anxiety testing or anger-control treatments. Unless you're making love to the tailpipe of your old Mercedes-Benz's every night since you're reacting as if I said something about your 'ladies'. Whatever the case I'm not going to allow you to waste another minute of my life nor anyone else's reading this thread. Please go harass another thread. It's that simple so shooo, move on, go away, stop pestering us with your disturbing hatred towards me personally. You do realize you're delusional enough to believe I'm going to alter my publication plan over your demands for my crash test details? Pop another prozac, zanex, morphine or whatever it is you take to ease that hate full mind/heart of yours. Your behavior is becoming blatantly queer. Try some more vaseline or maybe some fresh banana peels on those 70's & 80's Benz's tailpipes of yours. It's just material JB, and I'm just dealing with some undeniable physics that your personal intent and/or lack of intelligence will never let you understand. How strange to get so emotional over something you have absolutely nothing to do with? That must suck to live that emotionally charged. And I thought I had it bad contending with this experience. I couldn't imagine experiencing your emotions at my own will over random people's experiences. Up the dosage and get a grip man. It ain't your fight, it ain't your defense. Enjoy what happens next.
LOL

again, funny, but new evidence? is there any in this rant? I don't see anything. My interest in this thread is id like to see you actually convince a single person that your theory happened. So far in your life and in this thread that has not happened.
Present some real data that supports the torque lunge, broken seat (oh wait, NOT broken seat now), speed of impact, air bag delay, FMVSS that says airbags should save lives WITHOUT seatbelts, ect, and you might start having an argument.
So far, your outlandish theory erodes like sand in a rainstorm against the far more likely theory of reckless driving, driver error, and no seatbelts. Present something compelling that is also not complete fabrication or opinion on your part, and then you have a case.

1983 240D 4-speed, DD
1974 240D turbo 617 swap, W201 5-speed project
Abomination Chevy Astro, 616 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff. Work van

Last edited by JBG3; 11-01-2013 at 11:14 AM.
JBG3 is offline  
post #218 of 285 (permalink) Old 11-01-2013, 11:12 AM
BenzWorld Senior Member
 
Date registered: Feb 2010
Vehicle: 1983 240D, 1974 240D
Location: RI
Posts: 501
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by virage105 View Post

With all that covered I have yet to understand how a rear seat passenger reached the dashboard before I did or maybe at the same time I did.
I know this has been covered a few thousand times, but if you recall, he wasn't wearing his seatbelt.

1983 240D 4-speed, DD
1974 240D turbo 617 swap, W201 5-speed project
Abomination Chevy Astro, 616 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff. Work van
JBG3 is offline  
post #219 of 285 (permalink) Old 11-01-2013, 11:17 AM
BenzWorld Senior Member
 
Date registered: Feb 2010
Vehicle: 1983 240D, 1974 240D
Location: RI
Posts: 501
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by virage105 View Post
All I'm trying to do is make sure nobody else has to experience my shoes of being slammed against a dashboard before being slammed into the moonroof. It's simply unsurvivable without designing your survival using your own limbs. That's all. Not to hear Mercedes deny acceleration entirely. Who does that?
Mercedes is pretty well covered by recommending that operators of their products wear a seatbelt as part of the safety system of the car.

I know this is tough to comprehend, but were the rear passenger belted in, he wouldn't have hit and forced your seat forward, and you probably would have been fine as well as him.

Had the driver been wearing a seatbelt, he probably wouldn't have died against the steering wheel. Tough to comprehend, but this very basic safety idea, strapping yourself in, had a massive bearing on this accident.

1983 240D 4-speed, DD
1974 240D turbo 617 swap, W201 5-speed project
Abomination Chevy Astro, 616 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff. Work van
JBG3 is offline  
post #220 of 285 (permalink) Old 11-01-2013, 11:53 AM
BenzWorld Senior Member
 
Date registered: Feb 2010
Vehicle: 1983 240D, 1974 240D
Location: RI
Posts: 501
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by virage105 View Post
Simon - I vaguely recall the Limo Driver being survived by a wife and stepchild but to the best of my knowledge they did not take any action against the CL55amg Driver's widow/estate. Not that it was his fault but I did pull the road design from public records and visited that intersection. There was a stop sign in the merge intersection he took at over 35mph
.

and how do you know this? you have absolutely no idea how fast the limo was going, and you have no idea what he was doing in the merge intersection. You were asleep at the time of the accident, in another car, around a corner, remember? How are you establishing the speed?

Quote:
Not that he deserved death over that, but neither did the CL55amg deserve death over an auto-downshift lunge exiting a curve nor the critical injuries that occurred against the steering wheel before his airbag slammed his head against the roof too.
guess he could have used that seatbelt.

Quote:
The only one that died without any act of their own and any MB-occupant restraint device issues was the CL55amg's rear seat passenger who left a daughter behind and a wife that was in the middle of divorcing him (so she didn't take an action against the Widow or CL55amg's driver's estate either to the best of my knowledge).
sure there was an act on his part, he acted in deciding not to buckle in. Guess he ALSO could have used that seatbelt.

Quote:
Don (the CL55amg) driver didn't inform me of the plans he made with the rear seat passenger that night, cause he knew I wouldn't stay a guest at his house with my soon-to-be fiance knowing only three of us were going out on the night before his daughter's Christening. It's amazing how the personal settings can alter the perspective of a physical safety issue so much, for so many.
I guess so, all this personal stuff going on is definitely a good reason not to buckle up. Guess they decided they didn't need those seatbelts, what with the christening and all. Bad call that cost them their lives.

Quote:
All I'm trying to do is make sure nobody else has to experience my shoes of being slammed against a dashboard before being slammed into the moonroof. It's simply unsurvivable without designing your survival using your own limbs. That's all. Not to hear Mercedes deny acceleration entirely. Who does that?
and yet you lived. The seatbelt had nothing to do with you living?

1983 240D 4-speed, DD
1974 240D turbo 617 swap, W201 5-speed project
Abomination Chevy Astro, 616 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff. Work van
JBG3 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Closed Thread

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > MB Safety & Testimonials

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Similar Threads
    Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
    Bluetooth & Integrated Phone Plug ProvingGrounds W140 S-Class 8 11-17-2013 10:21 AM
    COMMAND COMMUNICATION ISSUES & GATEWAY 500 WARRANTY ISSUES POURCTYSBKON Audio & Telematics Forum 2 12-26-2008 03:40 AM
    Great Deals on 209 AMG'S & 216'S CaliforniaMBGuy C209/A209 CLK-Class 2 09-06-2007 06:05 PM
    Integrated phone issues - seen this before? mkhoo W211 E-Class 1 12-11-2006 05:11 PM
    19" AMG's..anyone else have issues?? DKM C215 CL-Class 2 01-22-2003 12:08 AM

    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome