Emergency stop (engine off) with Keyless Go? - Page 4 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #31 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-03-2009, 04:06 PM
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I'm thinking that a solution might be to design the cars so that the engine would slow if the brakes were applied under high rpm conditions. There are few situations where the throttle and brakes are applied at the same time. Some specialized driving, such as road ralleys, etc. In other words, if the throttle is stuck, for whatever reason, and the brakes are applied hard, at the same time, the computer could be programmed to slow the engine. This idea would have to be refined, to deal with letting up on the brakes after the car has slowed, etc. But, I think it's doable for future models.
Ran across this discussion while doing a google search. Not a Benz owner but I have personally experienced the "stuck accelerator". My mom owns a 2001 VW Passat. This car is equipped with the Drive by Wire throttle system. It also has a kick down button that downshifts the tranny, this button is activated by flooring the throttle. One time while accelerating I floored the pedal and hit the kick down button and held the pedal there for a few seconds (it's a 1.8L very underpowered) and when i tried to release the pedal it wouldn't budge. Naturally I started FREAKING out. I ended up getting my foot on the backside of the pedal and pulled it back. Once I got home, I did some investigation and realized the pedal had gotten caught on the floor mat. So then I got curious as too what one would do if this happened again, I wondered first off what would happen if I hit the brakes. So I took the car out on the road again, and floored the car, then put my left foot on the brake. The car continued to accelerate for about 5 seconds, then the throttle was cut, and then the car slowed considerably.

So I'm thinking that if a VW does this fail-safe why have no other companys implemented this same Technology. has anyone tried this on their Benz?
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post #32 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-03-2009, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanduneboi View Post
Ran across this discussion while doing a google search. Not a Benz owner but I have personally experienced the "stuck accelerator". My mom owns a 2001 VW Passat. This car is equipped with the Drive by Wire throttle system. It also has a kick down button that downshifts the tranny, this button is activated by flooring the throttle. One time while accelerating I floored the pedal and hit the kick down button and held the pedal there for a few seconds (it's a 1.8L very underpowered) and when i tried to release the pedal it wouldn't budge. Naturally I started FREAKING out. I ended up getting my foot on the backside of the pedal and pulled it back. Once I got home, I did some investigation and realized the pedal had gotten caught on the floor mat. So then I got curious as too what one would do if this happened again, I wondered first off what would happen if I hit the brakes. So I took the car out on the road again, and floored the car, then put my left foot on the brake. The car continued to accelerate for about 5 seconds, then the throttle was cut, and then the car slowed considerably.

So I'm thinking that if a VW does this fail-safe why have no other companys implemented this same Technology. has anyone tried this on their Benz?
First, I'm glad that you were able to get the Passat under control, without being hurt. The 5 second thing sounds good, but 5 seconds is a very long time under emergency conditions. I was watching the television program "The Amazing Race" this past Sunday on the CBS network. Mercedes Benz is a sponser of the show as there are often brand new MB's for the contestants to drive. The episode was in the Netherlands. One contestant, under the pressure of the race, jumped into his loaner Benz, and could not get it to go into "Drive". The model of MB had the shift lever on the steering column. I am not familiar with that system. My shifter is on the console, between the seats. The problem was, the driver could not figure out how to get the car to go! He had to ask a passerby for help. Between the two of them, they figured it out. Keeping in mind that a person is often not driving their own car, and few study the owner's manual, if this dude had so much trouble figuring out how to get the car into gear, what would he do if he had to find neutral in a panic situation? My son has a nearly new VW Jetta. I'm going to try the test that you did and see what happens. I am really thinking that all new, keyless models should immediately dump engine power when the brakes are applied hard, under high (or stuck) throttle conditions. Sorry this is so long! I just feel that the problem is going to get worse, before it gets better. And, don't even get me started about cell phones and "texting" while driving! That's insane...
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post #33 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-04-2009, 09:38 PM
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whoever was on the phone, there was enough time to react. Please, do not mentioned about the police training again. That doofus / family killer was a disgrace to the force. Dude probably wasted our tax money and skipped out the training sessions.

anyways, signing off this topic. sorry to hear about the passengers. glad to know one less moron on the road.
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post #34 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 03:56 PM
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whoever was on the phone, there was enough time to react. Please, do not mentioned about the police training again. That doofus / family killer was a disgrace to the force. Dude probably wasted our tax money and skipped out the training sessions.

anyways, signing off this topic. sorry to hear about the passengers. glad to know one less moron on the road.
wow..still think your contribution to subject matter has been worthless.
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post #35 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-06-2009, 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by sanduneboi View Post
Ran across this discussion while doing a google search. Not a Benz owner but I have personally experienced the "stuck accelerator". My mom owns a 2001 VW Passat. This car is equipped with the Drive by Wire throttle system. It also has a kick down button that downshifts the tranny, this button is activated by flooring the throttle. One time while accelerating I floored the pedal and hit the kick down button and held the pedal there for a few seconds (it's a 1.8L very underpowered) and when i tried to release the pedal it wouldn't budge. Naturally I started FREAKING out. I ended up getting my foot on the backside of the pedal and pulled it back. Once I got home, I did some investigation and realized the pedal had gotten caught on the floor mat. So then I got curious as too what one would do if this happened again, I wondered first off what would happen if I hit the brakes. So I took the car out on the road again, and floored the car, then put my left foot on the brake. The car continued to accelerate for about 5 seconds, then the throttle was cut, and then the car slowed considerably.

So I'm thinking that if a VW does this fail-safe why have no other companys implemented this same Technology. has anyone tried this on their Benz?
The one thing this doesn't address is what would happen in the event of a malfunction due to programming, poor programming, etc that causes a this condition in fly by wire throttle cars. One won't be able to say that if there's a malfunction causing the throttle to stick open, that the engine will die with the brake applied.
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post #36 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-06-2009, 03:14 AM Thread Starter
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AFAIK most drive by wire throttle in Euro car has this mechanism of closing of the throttle if brake is applied (after a certain amount of time delay). If I am not mistaken, somewhere in the LA Times article, it is speculated that Toyota might not have this "safety" mechanism.
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post #37 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-06-2009, 07:03 PM
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One won't be able to say that if there's a malfunction causing the throttle to stick open, that the engine will die with the brake applied.
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post #38 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ML_captain View Post
whoever was on the phone, there was enough time to react. Please, do not mentioned about the police training again. That doofus / family killer was a disgrace to the force. Dude probably wasted our tax money and skipped out the training sessions.

anyways, signing off this topic. sorry to hear about the passengers. glad to know one less moron on the road.
You dont even know this man yet you talk shit like you do just because of his profession??

I would pay to see your reaction with your entire family in the car, your mind going nuts when shit starts to go wrong and have you not be able to turn off the power or shift it out of drive

You are surely an Epic Asshole
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post #39 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-12-2009, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ML_captain View Post
whoever was on the phone, there was enough time to react. Please, do not mentioned about the police training again. That doofus / family killer was a disgrace to the force. Dude probably wasted our tax money and skipped out the training sessions.

anyways, signing off this topic. sorry to hear about the passengers. glad to know one less moron on the road.
You're an asshole. I remember hearing about this on the news and just thinking "oh, why didn't he just shut the car off" but after reading that article, there was much more to it. How dare you go off and make judgmental remarks about someone of whom you have no clue about.

You cant figure how it can get to 120? Hell bro, my S500 well get to its 135 mph max limit speed in a matter of probably two minutes or less.

Get real man, and watch out. Karma is a bitch. I hope your throttle never gets stuck open, if so, call 911 so we can start the timer and see how long ya last Good thing your little ole' ML 320 will probably make it to 85 or so, HAHA
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post #40 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-12-2009, 11:42 PM
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If you read the report the car was a new 2009 loaner so the driver was not driving a vehicle with controls he knew about, and he was going 120 mph in LA commute traffic. The fact that he didn't hit another car while this was happening says he was a very good driver. The report also mentioned that the brakes in the vehicle were burned out. The flames seen under the car were from the overheated brakes. Since the cars power brakes were vacuum assisted, and there was no available vacuum when full throttle you can't say the man didn't try to stop the car.
BTW: My BMW E93 must be in "PARK" in order to use the start/stop button to shut off the engine. This car will not power down in neutral. The owners manual for my W211 also says the car must be in Park to shut down. I cannot say for sure if it will stop in neutral since I only have that feature in my BMW and cannot test it on my Benz.
Toyota also requires you to hold the start/stop button down for more than 3 seconds before it will respond. At the speeds he was going that would have meant he would have covered almost 600 feet in heavy commute traffic going over 120 mph driving with only his left hand.
Toyota has claimed that there is no safety defect in their cars and is addressing the problem by recalling the floor mats. NHTSA is rather upset with Toyotas position on this.
What is needed here is some guidance from the car makers with these start/stop systems installed on what to do if we ever end up facing the same situation.

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