MB airbag deployment - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-19-2010, 12:16 AM
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See my new thread titled "AMG airbag and seatbelt issues".
I've experienced where the airbags didn't deploy and injuries were sustained against the dashboard.

My issue lies more so with the fact that AMG is utilizing the same safety systems as Daimler's base models while modifying everything else rendering the base safety systems insufficient.

There was a legal matter out there regarding electrical system malfunctions from water infiltration into the dash thru the vent system (with tree/leaves debris). It became an 'unofficial recall'. May have nothing to do with airbag deployment but I was unable to get an answer as to which electrical systems failed.

Seems to be a mix between issues with either "German Engineering" and their legal/management teams now. Or they started loving the all mighty dollar a bit too much now.
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post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-19-2010, 08:29 PM
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To the Original poster: A few years ago I saw a vehicle hit a pretty substantial pot hole and a nanosecond later the driver got a face full of airbag. I don't recall the brand of vehicle but I do recall that pot hole was absolutely bone (and apparently sensor) jarring. It is very very rare but it does happen.

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post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-09-2010, 01:20 PM
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Integrated Airbag Deployment Sensors

I find it amazing that a company manufacturing a name such as Mercedes-Benz depends solely on decelerometers to sense 'crash severity' and deploy airbags.

What does it take to acquire and install Mechanical push-button 'crumple' sensors, wiring and code changes to ensure airbag systems function or don't mal-function?

It's similar to the logic in permitting an automatic transmission with >>500ftlbs of torque to downshift without limitations, just by depressing the accelerator. In the old days there was a reason for reverse valve body transmissions. Not only are the vehicles safer when massive power downshifts/neutral drops are not possible, but the manufacturer will save $$ on warranted repairs.

This isn't rocket science and nothing new for that matter.
MB is the only company in the world utilizing integrated seatbelts in >>500hp vehicles so something tells me their advertised "safety" claims are just that, advertising.
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post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-07-2010, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by dwightandmisty View Post
Just curious, what ever happend to your car? Did mercedes cover it, or your insurance? Last night my sister's 2000 S500 had the same thing happen. She was backing up from the gas station at about 3 mph and the drivers side airbags (front, rear, roof, door) deployed unexpectdely. Mercedes dealer in TX said they need to talk to insurance, insurance says they wont cover it as it was a malfunction. Any input on where to go next would be appreciated.
Report it to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. They have Federal Investigators that will look into it. Both of you guys should report air bag deployments to them esp if no accident happened.

HOW TO REPORT A SAFETY COMPLAINT
Select how you would like to report your complaint. See below for information regarding this form.
ONLINE: Select the "Begin Form" button to the right.
BY PHONE: Call the Hotline, Monday-Friday 8am to 8pm at
(888) 327-4236 , TTY: (800) 424-9153.

WHO WE ARE
We are The Office of Defects Investigation (ODI), an office within the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). ODI conducts defect investigations and administers safety recalls to support the NHTSA's mission to improve safety on our Nation's roadways.
WHY YOUR COMPLAINT IS IMPORTANT
Your complaint information will be entered into NHTSA-ODI's vehicle owner's complaint database and used with other complaints to determine if a safety-related defect trend exists.
If a safety-related defect exists in a motor vehicle or item of motor vehicle equipment, the manufacturer must provide a remedy at no cost to the owner. Your complaint is the first step in the process.
We do not have to receive a specific number of complaints before we look into a problem. We gather all available information on a problem. Your complaint is important to us.
HOW YOUR COMPLAINT IS HANDLED
Government engineers analyze the problem. If warranted, the Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) will open an investigation to determine if a safety defect trend exists. Some of these investigations result in safety recalls.
While you may or may not be contacted by a NHTSA-ODI investigator to clarify the information submitted, all reports are reviewed and analyzed for potential defects trends.

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post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-20-2010, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by MRBSMITH View Post
Also, the MB air bags and belts are deployed only if occupant inury is possible, and only to the level that prevents that injury. Bags and Belts are only the third and fouth level of protection, and will not be used unless required. It aint a ford folks.

I think MB will take care of you on this one this one after you report it.

Do keep us informed, OK?

B
B
the op has left the building LoL.

the red parts are not true. if it was "only" then hers wouldn't have deployed.

michael
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post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-24-2010, 01:27 PM
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The design of the crash sensor which is deploying the airbags is extremely sofisticated to

1. prevent non-necessary deployment of airbags
2. to guarantee deployment of airbags exactly when needed.

It is not only a simple deccerelator, it is also integrating the decceleration over a certain time and has to decide in milliseconds.
Also the hardware is extremely failprove from its design and inhibits an extremely long service-life.

The airbag has been invented by Munich engineer Walter Linderer in 1951. Since 1967 Mercedes-Benz invested Millions on DeutschMarks in the further development of the Airbag, 1971 a Mercedes patent was granted.
Since 1980 the airbag was available on the S-Class W126. Most investment was done to make it extremely reliable; there is no other car part in which Mercedes invested more effort.

Regards

Dirk
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post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-24-2010, 08:02 PM
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They key question I have is:
Can a deceleration-based sensor be overcome by acceleration?
In other words is it possible to destroy the front end of a Mercedes while still accelerating as to never trigger the sensor before its destroyed?
Cause that's what I saw firsthand and nobody has answered why the driver pushed the steering wheel into the dashboard with his chest, I hit the dash with my head, and both airbags imposed occipital scalp injuries after we finally came to a rest.

Mercedes is pushing this matter into utter disgrace.
And that's why I will soon arrange frontal barrier crash tests on a 2003 CL500 and a 2003 CL55 at 30mph at full throttle, and publish the results. As well as their disgracefully false defense claims.

Cause how many other passengers will reach the ability to blow $100,000 crashing used vehicles and another $100,000 for legal assistance while fighting a monster such as Mercedes who claims I owe my survival to them. With occipital scalp injuries and a bent seat back.

I'm starting to believe Mercedes is a company owned and ran by Jewish attorneys now. Not as if Germans got to keep any ownership of war machines after WWII. Designs by Laws. DBL's. Failure by lack of self governance. No offense meant towards Jewish folks. It's just what I've observed so far.
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post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-25-2010, 04:46 AM
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Originally Posted by virage105 View Post
They key question I have is:
Can a deceleration-based sensor be overcome by acceleration?
In other words is it possible to destroy the front end of a Mercedes while still accelerating as to never trigger the sensor before its destroyed?
I do not think that this is possible. I do not know the exact lay-out of the airbag control unit which also incorporates the crash sensor of this special car.
Normally, the airbag control unit is mounted in the middle of the dash board on a stiff body part appr. over the gear box. The unit also contains the crash sensor at least for the frontal collisions. The acceleration the engine can apply to the car is in magnitudes smaller than the decceleration of 10g or 30 g through a crash.
The crash sensor is mounted close to the passengers, so it monitors the decceleration of the car's body structure at that place. So the decceleration at sensor and at the driver/passenger should be equal. I.e. the sensor should do right.

Otherwise, on some airbag control units there is the possibility to program them according to the car in which they are integrated. What is going to be programmed is not known to me, but maybe it is the dependence of decceleration and time delay for deploying the airbags? Consider - just as hypothesis - you had the wrong control unit or a false programmed unit in the car which deployed the airbags too late?

To figure out more about the airbag system and the control units I recomment that you look into the WIS, search for airbag and airbag control units. There are a lot of descriptions. Also your car should be covered by the WIS.
The WIS lists also airbag control units which have to be programmed dedicated for the specific car.
Figure out through EPC the part no. of the airbag control unit dedicated for the car and compare with the part no. of the unit in the crashed car.

Dirk

Last edited by Dirk124; 08-25-2010 at 04:50 AM.
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post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-25-2010, 08:16 AM
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Regarding the airbag system layout:
"The CL55 is also equipped with a Supplemental Restraint System ("SRS"), is comprised of the vehicle's air bag systems and the Emergency Tensioning Retractors ("ETRs") that are part of the seat belts"
"The SRS has acceleration sensors (accelerometers) in its Electronic Control Unit in the occupant compartment. In addition, pertinent to frontal air bag protection, the vehicle is equipped with two accelerometers at the front of the vehicle that assist with detecting the severity of the crash."... Lawrence Fleming, Product Analysis Engineer with Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC (Eng. Dept. in Vehicle Compliance and Analysis).

From this head on collision we were no where near 10g's until we reached the firewall of the limo head-on. By then the front of the CL55 also disintegrated.

Unfortunately, the car was salvaged without notice. I convinced myself I must have inadvertently slid out of the shoulder harness while raising my left guard. 2-years afterwards when my claim attorney was involving himself in my assets, I discovered the Case Report and realized my seat back bent forward by over 30-degrees and it wasn't my fault for reaching the dash before the airbag deployed (there was PLENTY of time). If the front end of the limo displaced by over 8' and the CL55's front end by over 4' in less than the 0.08sec it takes to achieve airbag deployment, the side of my head would have damage via the door glass (as well as the limo driver), not the top/rear of my head (the limo driver was keeled over towards the inboard of his vehicle, not the outboard). It took approx. 1-sec + to move laterally over during this 'joist'. With no airbags deploying.

Mr. Fleming also goes on to claim "Vehicle torque or horsepower will not interfere whatsoever with the crash sensor's ability to detect levels of deceleration associated with front crash tests". So there should be absolutely no difference in results of a frontal barrier crash test of a CL500 and a CL55 at 30mph both at full throttle. And two front occupants are supposed to incur top/rear head injuries in a head-on collision.

It's a shame Mercedes is choosing to take this road. I expected so much better of them. I used to own one, even raced it. Now you couldn't give me one. Not after their low reaction to this experience.
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post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-25-2010, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by virage105 View Post
They key question I have is:
Can a deceleration-based sensor be overcome by acceleration?
.
no, because the instant you hit something you are no longer accelerating. and that is what the sensor is supposed to pick up.


michael
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