The Best MB Engine Ever? - Page 4 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #31 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-01-2007, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by deanyel
A very noble thought, but naive. The company is under great cost pressure, especially from Asian manufacturers. They told us a 113 motor was better than a 119. But they told Wall Street that it cost only half as much to make. The 113s often burn oil badly at well under 100k miles. 210s rust, 124s didn't. I'd love to believe that everything is always better than what came before - but there's just too much evidence that it isn't true. Automobiles are becoming a disposable item and MB is not immune from the trend.

The M119 "better" than it’s replacement, the M113? It's true the M113 cost less to produce, but I don't necessarily view that as a detriment. Looking at the 420 and the 430, they both have the same peak horsepower and torque numbers, but the M113 has a wider power band. This becomes real obvious when comparing a 1997 E420 against a 1998 E430. They have the same transmissions and rear ends, but the E430 is faster from zero to sixty – 6.4 versus 6.7. The E430 also gets better fuel economy than the E420. According to the 1998 Mercedes-Benz press kit, the M113 engine gets 13% better fuel economy than the M119 it replaced. On top of that, according to Mercedes-Benz, the M113 is a cleaner burning engine. And it has 45% less internal drag. And it weighs less. And it requires less maintenance (caps an rotors immediately come to mind). There’s a lot more to the M113, such as the "art work" intake manifold, but I'll try to keep this post reasonable in size. I was unaware of any issues where the M113 burns oil. Mine doesn’t, but I could be the exception, rather than the rule. Aside from cases where owners insist on using unapproved oil, I haven't heard of any engine problems with the M113. If there are some, I'd like to know.

Originally Posted by mcbear
the M119 beats anything that is current.

As for the M119 being better than anything new, I'm not sure how to approach that one. Bone stock the new M273 has over 380 horses and over 390 pound feet of torque. The new M156 has 475 horses and 465 pound feet of torque. Those are both naturally aspirated engines. Both the M273 and M156 too new to speak of long-term problems. In all fairness, the M273 does get worse fuel economy than the M119 (even with the 7-speed). The M156 takes a serious dip in fuel economy numbers, but I don't think that's a serious concern for the average M156 buyer. The M119 may handle saltwater baths better than newer engines, but that sounds like somewhat of a rare set of circumstances.

Of course, "better" is a subjective term. I suppose it all depends on what one considers to be of value.
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post #32 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-04-2007, 01:24 AM
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Nobody said the M103 2.6? I like the sound it makes better tnat the V6.

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