326.10 Spec ATF-Where? - Mercedes-Benz Forum

 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-31-2016, 03:36 PM Thread Starter
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326.10 Spec ATF-Where?

So I spent about three hours going through transmission/ATF threads last night gleaning knowledge for my upcoming '02 ML 500 flush. I think I'm in the camp of believers that the .14 spec, lower viscosity ATF isn't what I want to put in my 200K transmission.

Trouble is. Finding the older fluid. Other than a few NOS bottle of Febi I found on eBay, it seems to be unobtainium.

Does anyone know of a source for the .10 fluid? Autohouse list a Fuchs Titan fluid as .10, but it's not. It's actually .12

Before the scolds start, remember I spent 3 hours perusing ATF threads.

Pentosin makes ATF 1 and ATF 1-LV. As near as I can tell 1 meets .10 spec and LV was made to comply with .14. Yes, I know it's not MB approved, but Pentosin is a quality product I've used in the past and I have total confidence in their claim that it meets the MB specs.

And if it sucks, well that's why they put drain plugs in their "Lifetime Filled" transmissions, right. :lol3
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-02-2016, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by dlearl476 View Post
Yes, I know it's not MB approved, but Pentosin is a quality product I've used in the past and I have total confidence in their claim that it meets the MB specs.
You have more confidence in a non-MB-approved product, than in MB who recommend that you use 236.14 fluid and not 236.10 in your trans?
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/d/d/en/Spec_231_1.pdf

You might be able to buy it from MB. It's listed in their catalog, but last time I tried it was NLA.

After 3 hrs of reading, all you need to know is this: MB say you should use 236.14 in the trans, but not in the transfer case. For that they still recommend 236.10.

236.14 fluid supersedes 236.12 and 236.10 fluid. You know why? Because it's better.

Last edited by DrX; 09-02-2016 at 07:37 PM.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-03-2016, 01:52 PM
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I'm with you on using the 236.10 fluid, at least on my '97. Valvoline has an "import" atf that made mention of meeting the 236.10 spec., on the back of the bottle. The Valvoline Maxlife says it meets the NAG-1 spec. which is Chrysler's spec for the same transmission. However, there were changes made to the 722.6 transmission with the early ones having a bushing wear problem, which I hope might be minimized with the higher viscosity fluid. Yours is a later transmission and might be more like the ones Chrysler used. I am not sure that 236.10 and NAG-1 are the same spec. The NAG-1 might be later and more like the 236.12, but I don't know.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-03-2016, 05:58 PM Thread Starter
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236.14 fluid supersedes 236.12 and 236.10 fluid. You know why? Because it's better.
Define "better." I suspect that M-B's definition may be slightly different than mine. In they same way subsequent oil specs have reduced anti-corrosion and anti-wear additives in the interest of lowering emissions, I suspect the lowered viscosity of .12 and again in .14 had to do with reasoning not entirely harmonius with longevity. M-B has no vested interest in the durability of my transmission. I do.

But, alas, it may be a moot point. As near as I can tell, no M-B approved .10 spec ATF is available. My ML has 198K and no record of fluid changes. It DOES have a long record of dealer servicing up to 2009 (when the fellow I bought it from bought it, most likely) I checked yesterday when I got my radio code prior to disconnecting my battery to fix my door lock actuator. So I figured I'd do the fluids now and do them again at 200K. I may try the Pentosin, I may just bite the bullet and go with the Shell 134.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-03-2016, 11:09 PM
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Define "better"? How about a combination of "outstanding behaviour at low temperatures", "optimised gearshift comfort", and "exceptionally constant friction behaviour"?

MB tested it and they like it. I changed my fluid 2 years ago from 236.10 to 236.14, and I like it too.

From the Febi catalog:
Quote:
e.g. repl. no. 001 989 68 03 (ATF 134)
febi 29449 is an ultra high performance automatic transmission fluid for
5 and 7-speed automatic gearboxes by Mercedes-Benz up to production date 18.06.2010 to optimise gearshift comfort (gears 722.6XX and 722.9XX).
Selected base oils and special additives enable:
· Outstanding behaviour at low
temperatures.
· Optimised, exceptionally constant
friction behaviour and as a result good gear changing behaviour over the entire operating time.
· Mixable with conventional branded ATFs.
We recommend that you change the transmission oil completely and
flush out the gearbox and the
torque converter so that you can utilise the advantages of febi 29449
to the full.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-04-2016, 10:17 AM
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In capitalism World "the better" too often can mean the manufacturer gives bigger "contributions" to the classifier.
Fact is that we can't measure the difference, that is why labs like Blackstone can run tests for us.
For example I tested Mobil!- recommended by MB on US market to generate pretty high iron.
M1 representative choose not to answer the questions about it on the net.
Than Shell Helix, what suppose to be excelent oil for MB diesels is not sold in USA.
Try to figure out that one.


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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-04-2016, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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In capitalism World "the better" too often can mean the manufacturer gives bigger "contributions" to the classifier.
Fact is that we can't measure the difference, that is why labs like Blackstone can run tests for us.
For example I tested Mobil!- recommended by MB on US market to generate pretty high iron.
M1 representative choose not to answer the questions about it on the net.
Than Shell Helix, what suppose to be excelent oil for MB diesels is not sold in USA.
Try to figure out that one.


Due to the aforementioned reduction in anti-wear and anti-corrosion additives in automotive oils, many motorcyclists use Shell Rotella in their bikes as opposed to much more expensive "Motorcycle" oil. I have a imaginary internet friend that was a chemical engineer for an oil company for 30+ years. He told me assays are the only way to be sure. And backed the Rotella believers.


FWIW, he also said Mobil spends more money on advertising than R&D. Despite recommendations, I've never used it in my Porsches. I prefer Motul products. Unfortunately, they never imported their .10 products to the states, but their .14 compatible ATF is just now becoming available. (Like Pentosin, Motul says it complies but it's not on the M-B list. What's s boy to do?)
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-04-2016, 01:25 PM Thread Starter
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In capitalism World "the better" too often can mean the manufacturer gives bigger "contributions" to the classifier.


Try to figure out that one.
It would certainly be interesting to be privy to the financial/political reasoning behind the approvals.

I'm not so cynical as to believe it's simply a "pay to play" equation. (Close, but no cigar. ) I suspect it has to with either a manufacturer willing to pay M-B to have their products tested in M-Bs labs or, in some cases more likely, the brands on the list are producers that are under contract to provide the OE "M-B" fluids and are allowed to sell the product under their own label as terms of the agreement. You look at the list for .10, it's M-B and Shell (and maybe a couple of others, I can't remember.) whereas the .14 list is a boatload of producers, one or two in every region of the globe. I could see it making more financial sense to have product produced "locally" vs paying to have Shell produced product shipped worldwide.

Quote:
Than Shell Helix, what suppose to be excelent oil for MB diesels is not sold in USA.
See above.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-04-2016, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by dlearl476 View Post
I suspect it has to with either a manufacturer willing to pay M-B to have their products tested in M-Bs labs or, in some cases more likely, the brands on the list are producers that are under contract to provide the OE "M-B" fluids and are allowed to sell the product under their own label as terms of the agreement. You look at the list for .10, it's M-B and Shell (and maybe a couple of others, I can't remember.) whereas the .14 list is a boatload of producers, one or two in every region of the globe.
There are around 200 oils on the 229.5 list, so I doubt it's exclusive.
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.5_en.html

What's happened to 236.10 is that it's a 20-year-old spec. Approvals last 5 years before expiring. No one makes 236.10 ATF anymore, because no one buys it, because it's been superseded twice. MB don't recommend it be used except in 20+ year old gearboxes. The vast majority of those are rusting in junkyards.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
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The vast majority of those are rusting in junkyards.

True. With any luck, mine never will be.
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