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Recommend a Mercedes with odd criteria

2K views 24 replies 7 participants last post by  Kajtek1 
#1 ·
I might be looking for a down market Mercedes. I'm a classic car guy with a lot of variety under my belt. My classic pickup was recently pancake-ified with a drizzling of me-sauce and dog-sprinkles (we both made it, but only just). Not surprisingly, the guy's insurance essentially stole my truck. Apparently in insurance land, the only thing that matters is shiny paint... Never mind the brand new built drivetrain and electrical system...

Anyway... I have $6K to play with including TTL and near term repairs between now and the ultimate settlement (which takes a long ass time). I was looking generally out on the market and found myself staring under the hood of a fairly nice '83 300TD. I like wagons, and dig diesels as well. What really grabbed me though was the engineering and build quality. I'm sure this comes a surprise no one here.

What I mean is that there are proper fasteners everywhere there should be fasteners. None of this modern car plastic rivet garbage. Additionally, a little research shows that nearly everything is designed to be rebuildable, with fusible parts, ease of access, etc. Very nice!

Unfortunately, the particular 300TD I was looking at has enough issues that I can't even test drive it... I might still do a deal there, but I have some time to figure that out, and in the meantime I'd like to explore other options.

So here's the question: With things like steel, brass, and whatever other alloy construction, rebuildability, PARTS AVAILABILITY and cost, and reliability in mind, what models are worth looking at?

I really like wagons, I've had a jones for an R107 off and on for a while, and I'm really pretty open. I just want to make sure I don't get something cool only to find that some common wear part is unobtanium. Mechanical injection setups are generally fickle and extremely pricey (this has kept me from really digging too deep in the R107 pool), but not being able to get a windshield is also a deal killer. I'm also not opposed to more modern cars. I haven't had a chance to really dig around in one yet, but googling images of engine compartments shows an awful lot of plastic... What's the deal with the newer stuff in this realm? I'm pretty open to suggestions.
 
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#2 ·
I did own all worth owning diesel MB available in US for last 30+ years.
They do go in different direction.
When the 112 HP, 25 mpg diesels of 1980's were really long lasting, my newest 210 HP, 35 mpg diesel is a beast.
Sure with new technology and use of plastic you will spend on parts more, but you will get the money back on fuel saving.
Fun to drive 6 seconds diesel >>>> PRICELESS.
 
#3 ·
Fuel economy is fine, but I can tune for that better than the OEMs can because I don't have to worry about end users not maintaining their shit.

Speed is fine too. I live in Colorado, and Audi (and I recently saw a pair of Chevrolets) uses the canyon roads I used to live on to test camouflaged prototypes. I've had plenty of fast cars and plenty of brilliantly handling cars, and I know I will again, but that's not really what I'm interested in right now.

Right now, I want a tank. I sort of collect cars like Pokemon (since it's in the news right now). I've had every manner of engine, make, model, class, country of origin, etc. One thing I've not experienced is the tank-like build quality that Mercedes was known for at one point. I want to know what the pinnacle of that is combined with current parts availability. Preferably with some utility (like a wagon) or fun factor (like a roadster). I don't particularly care for sedans... Kind of a worst of all worlds scenario.
 
#4 ·
Sounds like we have same hobby.
I did own about 50 vehicles in my life not because I needed them, but because I like to have fun with them and occasionally I made some money in the process.
Coming back to tank-feeling, I sold my 1985 300tdt about 13 years ago.
It gave you the tank feeling, but also with tank lack of comfort.
No ABS, no airbags, no door remote , the vacuum on central locking was deteriorating and when after fixing 10 small oil leaks I still had couple in hard to reach spots - I gave up.
We still have lot of pristine W123 and W126 driven daily in Bay Area, but those really nice cost more than 2010 models.
and they all drip.
 
#5 ·
Comfort is relative... After all the cars we've gone through, my wife wanted a brand new Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon. We got her one with all the bells and whistles. Special ordered, and even has her name on the Monroney. For all the crap Jeeps get about how rough and tumble they ride and handle, it's like a luxury car from our perspective!

There's a dearth of wagons in my area (Denver) diesel or otherwise. There are, in fact, precisely three. One with a bad tranny (W124), the one I've already looked at (W123), and another W123 with some pretty high miles. Not a lot to choose from. I'll probably give the high mileage one a look simply because with proper care and feeding it should be OK, but I don't have especially high hopes.

Meanwhile, I'm digging deeper and deeper into the R107s. The thing that scares me there is the mechanical fuel injection. I never really dug too deep into it, but it's looking like it might not be too bad. Parts availability is the thing I'm most leery of with cars like this. Doing the work is easy as long as I don't need any ultra special jigs or crazy tools.
 
#7 ·
I just did some homework on the K-jetronic fuel injection system. A lot simpler than I thought it was. Disappointingly so, actually... Looks fairly robust though.

I'll check out the other wagon on my excursion this weekend. There's a single photo to work from, and it shows 232K. It's my wife's favorite color though, and the seller seems enthusiastic. Mayhap it's been cared for. That seems to be the difference between death at 130K and death at 300K.
 
#8 ·
Honestly? The most tanky MB I've ever experienced was in W126 and W140. Both of these models come in coupe version, and both have their pro's and con's. Both have reliability up the wazoo once you fix the common issues.

Both have relatively common parts except for a few things. I can't recall which one was it, but i believe 560SEC had the rear panel trim that were extremely difficult to find. W124 wagon, the rear tail lights were next to impossible to find. W140....eh, I'm not sure there is any difficult to find part. They're flooding the junkyards around here, so you shouldn't be lacking.

Next step up is W124 (of course) and W210. Newer use progressively more plastic, but it's not all that bad. Simple to work on, reliable.
 
#9 · (Edited)
The W126 coupe was on my hot list for long time (thanks to "Road house"), but good luck finding one.
W124 somehow did not catch even I think they are good vehicles.
Maybe cast 14 heads gave it bad wrap, maybe missed 4Matic, but fact is that on father's W124 zooming on 30 years all plastics are still usable, when only driver seat at 300k shows noticeable wear. Still I got rid of it because could not stretch my legs in it.
I still think W210 is best bang for the buck even diesel models can reach high prices.

 
#10 ·
My general rule of thumb is that if it's newer than me, it's probably not worth messing with. There are very few cars my junior that aren't loaded with crappy failure piles of plastic.

It looks like the W126 uses the same engine (M117) as the R107. Am I reading that correctly?
 
#12 ·
That's how the mass production game works. The sort of thing that catches my attention is the power steering pump and reservoir on the W123 300TD I saw. A proper wing nut on proper steel threads holding a proper cast aluminum lid on a proper cast aluminum pump body that is properly rebuildable. That's how that shit's supposed to be! Now get off my lawn! :)

I saw a later model (later 80s I think), and that same wing nut was some shitty piece of plastic... Everything else looked the same, so it's not a complete deal breaker of a slide, but definitely a move in the wrong direction.

I haven't had the opportunity to inspect a gasser of the same vintage, but a run through the googler shows what looks to be a similar if not the same design peeking out of a 450sl. That's the sort of thing I REALLY like in a car...
 
#15 ·
18 years of experience is a little high, but pretty close. I never said anything about a W140; that was you/Deplore. I quietly ignored the suggestion for the reasons I outlined and to be generally polite. I don't have enough information to know that I'd turn one down outright, but I do have enough to know I won't be going out of my way for one.

That said, it's a rule of thumb, not a hard fast law. I was recently in a pretty horrific car accident in a classic pickup truck. It nearly killed both me and my dog, and absolutely destroyed the truck. Head on, 60mph, and the only safety equipment the truck had was a seatbelt and mass. I have a lot of pressure from my wife and family to get something safer. Add to that the asshole's shitty insurance practically stealing my truck from me, and with all the medical crap I had to go through, the settlement is still a good way out and the bills are still coming. The original plan was a Boxster, Cayman, or Carrera until I realized that with my wife's brand new Jeep, my two project cars, and my shop accoutrement I'd have to keep the Porsche outside. If I'm going to keep a car outside, I don't want it to be something I'm making payments on. As such, I'm in cash car territory. I'm trying to talk myself into something newish, but I keep coming across plastic garbage failure piles masquerading as automobiles and being completely turned off.
 
#17 ·
That said, it's a rule of thumb, not a hard fast law. I was recently in a pretty horrific car accident in a classic pickup truck. It nearly killed both me and my dog, and absolutely destroyed the truck. Head on, 60mph, and the only safety equipment the truck had was a seatbelt and mass. I have a lot of pressure from my wife and family to get something safer. Add to that the asshole's shitty insurance practically stealing my truck from me, and with all the medical crap I had to go through, the settlement is still a good way out and the bills are still coming. The original plan was a Boxster, Cayman, or Carrera until I realized that with my wife's brand new Jeep, my two project cars, and my shop accoutrement I'd have to keep the Porsche outside.
As an aside—and as much as I love Porsches—the SUVs and pickups that litter our highways will run right over the hood and put their front bumper and/or front wheels right through your windshield in a car that low. All you have to be doing is sitting at a traffic light when someone's playing with his/her phone. Glad you and your dog survived your accident.
 
#16 ·
Well. Then you're not exactly going to find a safe classic Mercedes. Old w123 are going to be the same as your classic truck -- no airbags, solid steel all around and who knows if of the 30 year old seat belt will still work. Not to mention that the insurance will total the car for having a parking lot ding, let alone any sort of serious accident.

It's the same story for W126 and W124, who knows if the airbags and seat belts will be still operational.

Plus these cars are going to be a endless project cars. You will find something wrong with it, I guarantee it.

I keep finding new things to fix on both of my W210, and they're less than 20 year old. Considering that both cars were built upon the old W124 platform....that's saying something.

Good luck with your search, and I hope you find a perfect car, Mercedes or no.
 
#18 ·
Well. Then you're not exactly going to find a safe classic Mercedes. Old w123 are going to be the same as your classic truck -- no airbags, solid steel all around and who knows if of the 30 year old seat belt will still work..
That is what I was pointing above, but somehow it was not noticed.
Comparing to truck W123 will not have engine mass, what would mean getting something less safe.
W124 come with air bag (1) and I think last MY had more safety features, but good question what is going to work at the age.
I kind keep records about serious accidents and W210 has very advanced crumple zones.
The car ends will smash like potatoes, but cabin will stay and the door will open.. at least most of the time.
There is pictorial in archives where member's wagon was rear-ended by SUV at 60 mph and he walked away.
 
#19 ·
Safety is relative. For instance, I'm pretty gun shy toward cab over and old mid/rear engined stuff (modern stuff that meets safety regs is fine). My wife is not thrilled with the idea of an old British roadster, but I'm not sure I'm fully against it. Seatbelts are a must, but I don't mind installing them myself. Mass, headrests and a little distance between my head and panes of glass are worthwhile. Crumple zones only count if they're intended to be crumple zones (see comment re: mid/rear engined cars and cab over).

Mercedes pretty much pioneered air bags, antilock brakes, and all manner of other fun things before they trickled down to the masses. They were THINKING about safety while every one else was concerned with... I don't know... What shade of velour to plaster all over everything? I felt perfectly safe in my '57 Karmann Ghia. That said, I did stay off the road when it was snowy and soccer moms had their heads in their apps...
 
#20 ·
Get both, a R107 for the nice days, and a 123 diesel for dayly driving:grin

I have both and, and after a little maintenance both have been highly reliable. My R107 is a 84 280SL with a 5 speed manual. It is a blast to drive on twisty mountain roads, with its high revving M110. The main maintenance so far other than appearance mods, was to replace valve stem seals, and adj valves.

The 78 300CD has 250K on it. 10K put on by me in the last 10 months. It has taken alot more maintenance, water pump, new starter, up-grade battery cables, adj valves, and replace most of the rubber mounts. Car has never left me stranded, and if you do your own work these repairs are really not more expensive than on any domestic car. I like the simplicity of the OM617 engine, the sound of a diesel on start up, and being unique. The non-turbo is geared perfect for our gravel/secondary roads here 60/65MPH, but is to low geared for interstate speeds 75+. Looking for a second W123, a turbo 300CD for interstate cruising, with its higher gear ratio's right now.

Both the R107, and W123 are classy, raw, and just fun to drive. Plus easy to work on without all the modern electrical BS. Do not think you could go wrong with either.

Right now I am restoring a 72 Chevy K10 4x4 Good Luck in your search
 

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#21 · (Edited)
Bad part about finding how good value is in older Mercedes -Benz is that next time you will have to buy a farm in Montana.
Have a friend who having bigger property in City of Berkeley collected 17 of W126 and W123
The City was giving him several notices that he ignored, till they called towing company that took all the cars away.
 
#22 ·
None of those BS regulations here:grin
MT actually has a permanent plate option. For about twice the yearly license fee, you can get "permanent plates" on any vehicle eleven years old. It then never needs to be licensed again as long as "you" own it. Needless to say, 6 of the 7 vehicles I drive are older than 11 years. The Duramax will be eligible next year:devil
 
#25 ·
Darn, I like Montana more and more.
The state is famous for decades for having low vehicle taxes and registration fees.
If you wonder why so many luxury motorhomes in California drive with Montana licence plates?
When you buy $400,000 coach in CA, you pay about $38,000 tax -plus the annual registration of about $4,000.
The registration fee will go down over the years, but can you see a motivation to establish Montana corporation, that will own the motorhome driven in CA ?
 
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