Timing Chain Links. - Mercedes-Benz Forum

 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-05-2015, 08:48 AM Thread Starter
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Question Timing Chain Links.

Looking for an experienced mechanic who could shed some light on the question of using a clipped master link or a riveted master link in a timing chain. The factory chains all seemed to be riveted and some replacements use a riveted master link while others use a clipped link.

My common sense says the riveted link is more reliable, but I have not heard of a clipped link failing. Clips are more convenient (no tool needed, reusable?), but are they just as reliable?
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-05-2015, 08:59 AM
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Holy Bleep, that's a pretty advanced question. Might be one for NDT specialists, never mind an experienced mechanic...
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-05-2015, 01:21 PM
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I have only seen and used the riveted links. Have the tools to do and IMO is a stronger connection.
I have never seen a clip style link installed for a timing chain on an MB.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-06-2015, 11:54 AM
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However lacking the proper tools the clip style is much easier and just as reliable.

More scientifically all the stress is on the pins, the clips just keep it from wandering and there is very little side pressure.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-29-2015, 04:02 AM
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Mercedes Engine Builder here.

Many aftermarket (IWIS) and sometimes Mercedes chains which come with the funky little clip. The RIGHT thing to do is always order the correct master link that can be swaged from Mercedes if you have one of these chains.
Even with the dreaded Matrix pricing, the master links are still in the range of tens of dollars for most engines.

Many things go wrong with Mercedes engines that will cause them to end up in the shop as a core. You will not hear about it happening. I've seen all kinds of crazy engine failures caused by ideas that "seemed great" to the mechanic at the time. The clipped links are not reliable, and just aren't worth the 10k+ rebuild a timing chain failure would cause,
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-29-2015, 05:46 AM
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A slight digression

Most conventional wisdom I have read says that a clipped link is adequate for gasser chains whereas a riveted link should be used on diesels. I however think rumb is right and would not hesitate to use a clipped chain in any application.

Motorcycle single row secondary chains are always clipped and arguably have a much harder life than auto engine timing chains. Even they however have their own urban legend that says you must install the clip with the closed end in the direction of rotation or it will fly open. Absurd.

I have never heard of a chain failure caused by a separated clip. Bike and automotive chains are changed on the basis of link wear manifested as "stretch". Typical timing chain catastrophic failures on Mercedes engines are caused by pieces of broken chain slipper getting between the chain and sprocket.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-29-2015, 06:39 AM
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What is the proper tool or process to swage / peen the link on?



Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperStrife View Post
Mercedes Engine Builder here.

Many aftermarket (IWIS) and sometimes Mercedes chains which come with the funky little clip. The RIGHT thing to do is always order the correct master link that can be swaged from Mercedes if you have one of these chains.
Even with the dreaded Matrix pricing, the master links are still in the range of tens of dollars for most engines.

Many things go wrong with Mercedes engines that will cause them to end up in the shop as a core. You will not hear about it happening. I've seen all kinds of crazy engine failures caused by ideas that "seemed great" to the mechanic at the time. The clipped links are not reliable, and just aren't worth the 10k+ rebuild a timing chain failure would cause,
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-29-2015, 08:21 AM
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If you must

Timing Chain Crimping Tool, Adaptor Bit Not Included, All Mercedes Engines With Timing Chains, Each
$147.75

TOL-M-0050-SIR

Adapter Bit, Applicable - Mercedes engine - OM601, OM602, OM603, OM615, OM616, OM617.
$46.10

TOL-M-0050-A
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-29-2015, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky raccoon View Post
Most conventional wisdom I have read says that a clipped link is adequate for gasser chains whereas a riveted link should be used on diesels. I however think rumb is right and would not hesitate to use a clipped chain in any application.

Motorcycle single row secondary chains are always clipped and arguably have a much harder life than auto engine timing chains. Even they however have their own urban legend that says you must install the clip with the closed end in the direction of rotation or it will fly open. Absurd.

I have never heard of a chain failure caused by a separated clip. Bike and automotive chains are changed on the basis of link wear manifested as "stretch". Typical timing chain catastrophic failures on Mercedes engines are caused by pieces of broken chain slipper getting between the chain and sprocket.
Building many 380 engines with broken timing chains back in the day (and still finding cores now) does a lot to break your confidence in the ability of timing chains to survive anything.
The common issue that would come up with a timing chain clip on a gas motor failing is when you start to encounter chain slap as a result of some other failure (cheap plastic rails failing, idler/countershaft sprocket wear, mechanic doing something crazy with valve adjusters, hydraulic tensioner failure).
The modern diesel chains aren't significantly different from the gas engine timing chains (not 276/278 of course), and share the same tool (different head) that rocky has posted with the gas engines.
I know that those swaged chain links can survive hell inside of an engine (40,000 miles no oil changes) , whereas I wouldn't want to find out what it takes to make a clipped link fail.
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