Did I just waste $2000 and ruin a good catalytic converter - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-27-2013, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Patch's View Post
Mr.Mojo " since someone gutted the primary cat" that's the clue to "and noticed a metallic ringing coming from inside" when you hit the converter jacket with the mallet to see if that is the cause of the rattle what you should hear is a rattle back in that jacket you strike, that is the "honeycomb" ceramic cat converter knocking on the jacket walls that you hit with the mallet, because you heard a metallic ringing explains what you already know there's nothing in there to muffle the sound wave. Why it is important to change them asap when they first start to rattle is because they grind down to an ash like substance that will clog the next cat then the muffler and of course pack the o2 units vented shielding.
All of this has some very negative effects on the engine for one heat, and the engine management system can not function properly because the readings are outside the program parameters as there is no differential between the o2's. You mentioned strait pipe, I think many of us would not see the benefit of doing that without the complex task of programming the management system or generating a false input from the monitor to the system. As you see now there are some alternatives to the stock cats that are inexpensive and likely the better choice over straight piping, when money is available again. How is your gas mileage now?
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First and foremost, thank you Patch for going into detail on why my cats are the culprit. Your explanation makes complete sense and has made up my mind in going with new cats. Just two things, now that I think about it my cat made more of metallic vibration when hit with a mallet. And now that I think about it, sounded like a noise that would come from a hollow canister. Also, I know the OEM cats are very expensive but are guaranteed to work without any issues. My question, and I'm sure it's been asked many times. Will aftermarket cats, like Walker, cause my car to throw a code? Do you or anyone else recommend a specific aftermarket brand that's had been **personally** tested? I know someone mentioned buying universal. Did you have issues getting them installed?


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post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-27-2013, 04:08 PM
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Several people on the W210 E-Class forum have bought some from Magnaflow and all seem fully satisfied.

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post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-28-2013, 01:24 PM
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MrMojo, Might be worth your while to Googe "how do catalytic converters work" this will likely help you make an informed decision, it's obvious you have an inquisitive mind likely you will appreciate knowing the facts. Exhaust is about flow control so Magnaflow as Musikmann mentioned is a reputable brand and been around since I was hot-rodding early 70s. They do things differently and their parts need to fit multipliable engines in order to make business sense, MB has their stuff made for their requirements, then has to make a production order, hold it in stock ship and so on, easy to understand why the price is more expensive and you get the expected parameters when servicing the engine, makes sense. After market anything has a different target and in many case we are taking a chance, I wouldn't be looking for "more horse power" just because I am using an after market flow system, horse power gained is more than a flow out issue, don't get hung up in the hype!
I would also go with replacement o2s if your budget permits, I have tried the universal o2s and found they don't do the job for my MB but I do keep them in my hobby shop for fooling with other projects.
For others trying to understand the rattle of the 'Cat's" the idea is to knock hard the exhaust piping about a couple feel down from the cat with a hard rubber mallet, you are looking to simulate the shaking of the pipes that cause the core inside the cat converter jacket to shake around, a steel mallet is the wrong tool, just shake the pipes if you hear any wobbling around in the cat then you know the ceramic converter is bad and will need changing, if you don't hear the noise at the converter then as in MrMojo's case the rattle is possibly elsewhere.
Never get under a car before checking that it is stable, never get under a car that is only held by one jack.
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post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-01-2013, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patch's View Post
MrMojo, Might be worth your while to Googe "how do catalytic converters work" this will likely help you make an informed decision, it's obvious you have an inquisitive mind likely you will appreciate knowing the facts. Exhaust is about flow control so Magnaflow as Musikmann mentioned is a reputable brand and been around since I was hot-rodding early 70s. They do things differently and their parts need to fit multipliable engines in order to make business sense, MB has their stuff made for their requirements, then has to make a production order, hold it in stock ship and so on, easy to understand why the price is more expensive and you get the expected parameters when servicing the engine, makes sense. After market anything has a different target and in many case we are taking a chance, I wouldn't be looking for "more horse power" just because I am using an after market flow system, horse power gained is more than a flow out issue, don't get hung up in the hype!
I would also go with replacement o2s if your budget permits, I have tried the universal o2s and found they don't do the job for my MB but I do keep them in my hobby shop for fooling with other projects.
For others trying to understand the rattle of the 'Cat's" the idea is to knock hard the exhaust piping about a couple feel down from the cat with a hard rubber mallet, you are looking to simulate the shaking of the pipes that cause the core inside the cat converter jacket to shake around, a steel mallet is the wrong tool, just shake the pipes if you hear any wobbling around in the cat then you know the ceramic converter is bad and will need changing, if you don't hear the noise at the converter then as in MrMojo's case the rattle is possibly elsewhere.
Never get under a car before checking that it is stable, never get under a car that is only held by one jack.
Patch's
Patch's, you are spot on with all of your posts in this thread. I would only like to emphasize one point for your casual reader, and that is your suggestion to use a RUBBER mallet. If someone grabs a ball pein hammer that will not apply the correct force, and if they use a five pound sledge they are likely to damage the ceramic matrix. A hard rubber hammer is just the right tool.
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post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-01-2013, 07:50 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patch's View Post
MrMojo, Might be worth your while to Googe "how do catalytic converters work" this will likely help you make an informed decision, it's obvious you have an inquisitive mind likely you will appreciate knowing the facts. Exhaust is about flow control so Magnaflow as Musikmann mentioned is a reputable brand and been around since I was hot-rodding early 70s. They do things differently and their parts need to fit multipliable engines in order to make business sense, MB has their stuff made for their requirements, then has to make a production order, hold it in stock ship and so on, easy to understand why the price is more expensive and you get the expected parameters when servicing the engine, makes sense. After market anything has a different target and in many case we are taking a chance, I wouldn't be looking for "more horse power" just because I am using an after market flow system, horse power gained is more than a flow out issue, don't get hung up in the hype!
I would also go with replacement o2s if your budget permits, I have tried the universal o2s and found they don't do the job for my MB but I do keep them in my hobby shop for fooling with other projects.
For others trying to understand the rattle of the 'Cat's" the idea is to knock hard the exhaust piping about a couple feel down from the cat with a hard rubber mallet, you are looking to simulate the shaking of the pipes that cause the core inside the cat converter jacket to shake around, a steel mallet is the wrong tool, just shake the pipes if you hear any wobbling around in the cat then you know the ceramic converter is bad and will need changing, if you don't hear the noise at the converter then as in MrMojo's case the rattle is possibly elsewhere.
Never get under a car before checking that it is stable, never get under a car that is only held by one jack.
Patch's
I just found a pair of primary cats for 150 a piece. The seller says they are off a 2004 s500 with under 60k miles. Is there any way to test the cats when they're already off the car? Thanks again.
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post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-01-2013, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patch's View Post
MrMojo, Might be worth your while to Googe "how do catalytic converters work" this will likely help you make an informed decision, it's obvious you have an inquisitive mind likely you will appreciate knowing the facts. Exhaust is about flow control so Magnaflow as Musikmann mentioned is a reputable brand and been around since I was hot-rodding early 70s. They do things differently and their parts need to fit multipliable engines in order to make business sense, MB has their stuff made for their requirements, then has to make a production order, hold it in stock ship and so on, easy to understand why the price is more expensive and you get the expected parameters when servicing the engine, makes sense. After market anything has a different target and in many case we are taking a chance, I wouldn't be looking for "more horse power" just because I am using an after market flow system, horse power gained is more than a flow out issue, don't get hung up in the hype!
I would also go with replacement o2s if your budget permits, I have tried the universal o2s and found they don't do the job for my MB but I do keep them in my hobby shop for fooling with other projects.
For others trying to understand the rattle of the 'Cat's" the idea is to knock hard the exhaust piping about a couple feel down from the cat with a hard rubber mallet, you are looking to simulate the shaking of the pipes that cause the core inside the cat converter jacket to shake around, a steel mallet is the wrong tool, just shake the pipes if you hear any wobbling around in the cat then you know the ceramic converter is bad and will need changing, if you don't hear the noise at the converter then as in MrMojo's case the rattle is possibly elsewhere.
Never get under a car before checking that it is stable, never get under a car that is only held by one jack.
Patch's
Patch's, you are spot on with all of your posts in this thread. I would only like to emphasize one point for your casual reader, and that is your suggestion to use a RUBBER mallet. If someone grabs a ball pein hammer that will not apply the correct force, and if they use a five pound sledge they are likely to damage the ceramic matrix. A hard rubber mallet is just the right tool.
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post #27 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-01-2013, 04:35 PM
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I just found a pair of primary cats for 150 a piece. The seller says they are off a 2004 s500 with under 60k miles. Is there any way to test the cats when they're already off the car? Thanks again.
FWIW, MB cats are under warranty for 80,000 miles. After that, if they "break" then you have to pay to get them replaced. Thinking another way, MB doesn't expect them to last much past 80,000 miles. It sounds like you may be buying cats that will only last about 20,000 miles. That may be ok for you, but I'd rather get some "universal" cat and hope they last longer.
My cats went bad at about 60,000 and the other at 90,000 miles.
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post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-01-2013, 05:33 PM Thread Starter
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FWIW, MB cats are under warranty for 80,000 miles. After that, if they "break" then you have to pay to get them replaced. Thinking another way, MB doesn't expect them to last much past 80,000 miles. It sounds like you may be buying cats that will only last about 20,000 miles. That may be ok for you, but I'd rather get some "universal" cat and hope they last longer.
My cats went bad at about 60,000 and the other at 90,000 miles.
Makes sense. I guess I'll go aftermarket. Walker seems to be the choice by mercedes owners. I just hope the local shop doesn't have an issue with tight spots.


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post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-05-2013, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
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I'm having a hard time finding a shop who will weld on front universal cats. Anyone know of a shop near the Chicagoland area or a multi chain repair center like Midus?


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post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-05-2013, 11:55 PM
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Midas won't touch it.
Call Kevin or Chad at Hot Rod Chassis in Addison and see who they know. They could do it in house if it was a build they were working on. However they are so crazy busy they would probably say no.
They do know a lot of people and hopefully can give you a few names to call.
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