Motor oil drain intervals and wear protection - Mercedes-Benz Forum

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-28-2010, 02:46 AM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
jsap's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jun 2008
Vehicle: R129
Location: NorCal
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Motor oil drain intervals and wear protection

My previous oil had a mix of MMO in it. But, I've been second guessing that move, because I wonder if a certain amount of varnish is actually a good thing. I say this because after adding MMO, my tappets became much cleaner, but I noticed that brown varnish was filling in the micro-scratches on the surface of the tappets and the cam lobes. So, it got me wondering whether motor oil forms certain films (which might include a certain amount of varnish) that help against metal-to-metal wear.

Does anyone have this article?

The Effect of Oil Drain Interval on Valvetrain Friction and Wear

"Engine oils are subjected to a series of industry standard engine dynamometer tests to measure their wear protection capability, sludge and varnish formation tendencies"

"...it was observed that engine oil samples collected from fleet vehicles after 12,000 mile drain interval showed 10-15 % lower friction and more importantly, an order of magnitude lower wear rate than those of fresh oils."

"It was also observed that the composition of the tribochemical films formed was quite different on the surface tested with the drain oils from those formed with fresh oils. The objective of this investigation is to demonstrate how the friction and wear performance changed with oil drain intervals."

It seems that tribochemical films (which I'm assuming possibly includes varnish films on surfaces) help protect against wear.

And, there's also these articles:

https://springerlink3.metapress.com/...ringerlink.com

Formation, structure, and properties of lubricant-derived antiwear films - Willermet - 2006 - Lubrication Science - Wiley Online Library

Does anyone have copies of these articles? It seems MMO and other additives might remove antiwear films, but I'd like to read the articles for their conclusions....

Beware of stealers
(and shill posters who work for stealers)
jsap is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-28-2010, 09:48 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Kajtek1's Avatar
 
Date registered: Dec 2005
Vehicle: W211 E320 Bluetec R129 SL500 - $1300 car ........ Ford F350 6l
Location: CA Bay Area
Posts: 31,793
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Quoted: 1127 Post(s)
30 years ago on my job I was taking lubrication classes.
This is what they teach then. Not much have changed.
Kajtek1 is online now  
post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-28-2010, 09:51 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Kajtek1's Avatar
 
Date registered: Dec 2005
Vehicle: W211 E320 Bluetec R129 SL500 - $1300 car ........ Ford F350 6l
Location: CA Bay Area
Posts: 31,793
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Quoted: 1127 Post(s)
BTW. I have manual for my 1972 Detroit diesel. Dino oils are recommended to be tested at 50,000 miles interval and than every 10,000 miles. With positive test results the change was advised at 100,000 miles.
Kajtek1 is online now  
post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-28-2010, 11:04 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
jsap's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jun 2008
Vehicle: R129
Location: NorCal
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
At first, I thought you put the comma after the wrong digit, but I can see what you're saying.

Just curious, do you use SJ, SL, or SM oils? Do you avoid oils with high detergents?

Beware of stealers
(and shill posters who work for stealers)
jsap is offline  
post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-28-2010, 11:50 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Kajtek1's Avatar
 
Date registered: Dec 2005
Vehicle: W211 E320 Bluetec R129 SL500 - $1300 car ........ Ford F350 6l
Location: CA Bay Area
Posts: 31,793
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Quoted: 1127 Post(s)
I quit buying oils by S? classification about 10 years ago.
Mercedes started their own recommendation and from about 5-6 years they have their own classifications that I am looking for.
My experience is that kind of motor oils play small role in engine life. I did work with a guy who never changed oil on his Nissan truck, because he figured out the truck was so cheap, that he can only gain. He also didn't add oil unless the red light was staying for longer than 30 seconds.
When I changed the job 20 years ago the Nissan had 140,000 miles on it running strong.
Kajtek1 is online now  
post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 12:50 AM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
jsap's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jun 2008
Vehicle: R129
Location: NorCal
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
140K is extreme, and strangely exciting to read.

Could you comment on Delo 400LE on my M119? Not 229.5 approved, but seems like a good oil. It's a bit thick (15.7 cSt), so I'm adding 2 two quarts Chevron Supreme dino 5W30 to 6 quarts of Delo 15W40, which brings the cocktail down to 14.2 cSt.

If I could find Delo 10W30 (12 cSt), I would have mixed half & half with the 15W40, making 13.85 cSt. Since it's more hydrocracked, 13.85 should hold up better than something like M1 0W40 (14 cSt).

(If I were going to keep the oil for 140,000 miles, I would use pure 15W40 and let it shear down.)

Beware of stealers
(and shill posters who work for stealers)
jsap is offline  
post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 09:44 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Kajtek1's Avatar
 
Date registered: Dec 2005
Vehicle: W211 E320 Bluetec R129 SL500 - $1300 car ........ Ford F350 6l
Location: CA Bay Area
Posts: 31,793
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Quoted: 1127 Post(s)
Your older model was manufactured before MB started its own oil classification, so legally you can use lot of oils. Still technology goes forward and I am feeding my cars with the best oils I can get, especially when they have the same prices as the older formulas.
Would you still use diarotary phone even if you have one?
Kajtek1 is online now  
post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
jsap's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jun 2008
Vehicle: R129
Location: NorCal
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Well, the M119 is ACEA A3, and the appropriate API is SJ. Delo 400LE is SM, so I reckon you'll approve.

What I like about the 400LE 15W40 is that even though it's SM, it contains 1300 & 1200 ppm zn & p, which is about the highest range for SM's.

Cheers

Beware of stealers
(and shill posters who work for stealers)
jsap is offline  
post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-30-2010, 02:36 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: May 2005
Vehicle: '07 GL320CDI
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 5,070
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsap View Post
Does anyone have copies of these articles? It seems MMO and other additives might remove antiwear films, but I'd like to read the articles for their conclusions....
Anyone that has them paid for them and probably agreed to a "license" to have them, which stipulated it was for their use only.

You should purchase your copy, too.

Kent Christensen
Albuquerque
'07 GL320CDI
lkchris is offline  
post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-30-2010, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
jsap's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jun 2008
Vehicle: R129
Location: NorCal
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
Anyone that has them paid for them and probably agreed to a "license" to have them, which stipulated it was for their use only.

You should purchase your copy, too.
Then I trust you won't be distributing any Mercedes publications, either, unless you provide proof of your copyright license agreement?

Postscript distribution rights depend on the agreement between the author and the publisher, not the journal warehouses that I linked to.

If copyright enforcement is really your thing, I can walk you through plenty of universities where professional journals are traded like napkins. You can make your soap box speech there.

Beware of stealers
(and shill posters who work for stealers)
jsap is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > General Mercedes-Benz

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Similar Threads
    Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
    W/ Lease - Excess Wear & Tear protection? abscam X164 GL-Class 13 03-20-2007 01:48 PM
    Oil Change Intervals jknust W203 C32 AMG, C55 AMG 4 04-27-2005 10:37 AM
    Replacing oil drain plug with drain valve. Installation pics Rainmaker W140 S-Class 3 04-14-2005 02:14 AM
    oil change intervals pointman W163 M-Class 15 12-01-2004 11:41 AM
    oil change intervals golfer W163 M-Class 5 10-31-2001 10:02 AM

    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome