Anybody known German? - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 09:37 AM
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Not obvious from the horrific assembly of the subject of your reply. To a German, it would be barely one step above completely unintelligible. Next time, remember that the verb is what the sentence is built around, along with the fact that sometimes, just sometimes, things don't translate direct and you need to know how they are expressed in the language you're using.
So what is the correct phrasing? "Ich spreche nicht gut Deutsch"? I know a few Germans and I think I have heard that said both ways. Your "completely unintelligible" comment is ridiculous and your personality is quite often abrasive.

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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 09:48 AM
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It would never, ever be said like that. It's equally hilarious that you would tell a certified C-level German speaker how it's said.

"Completely unintelligible"? Here's a phrase from one of my German certification books, from a text in a reading comprehension section:

"...denn je haeufiger Deklinations- und Konjugationsfehler auftreten und Funktionswoerter (Artikel, Praepositionen, Konjunktionen) weggelassen werden, desto unverstaendlicher ist der Redezusammenhang."


This is not also applying such problems as "Wortreihe", which is elemental to German, like the first course. The German sentence is built around the verb position, which is not always in the first second position of the sentence, by the way. I am simply saying that just about everything in that sentence is so wrong, that one can't even say "I know a little German". The essence of German, which English speakers will find hard to understand at least until they get to B2/2 or C1, is that there are subtleties of the language and usages of the words, endings, and conjugations, not to mention, such things as reflexives, and temporal differences, which are subtle, but they make a huge impact, and sometimes, completely change the outcome of the meaning of a sentence or phrase. A simple accusative/dative switch can change meanings drastically, as well as deklinations mistakes, as well. Even using the wrong reflexive form will completely change meanings.

It would be worded a variety of ways, but simply "Ich kann kein Deutsch", in this case, or "Mein Deutsch ist nicht so/sehr gut". Einfach. You used "nicht" completely wrong, the word order was complete off, accusative position, etc. This is actually outlined in the first 4 weeks of A-level/beginner German.

You don't have to like my personality, but I am pointing out that you're claiming you know "a little German", when, in fact, you don't. Lots of people into German cars "know a little German". Even I did, before I actually move to Germany and took German courses, only to find, I knew shit. You, as a person that doesn't know how to speak German, but claiming you do, claims it ridiculous, when called on a mistake by a German speaker, not even knowing that I was able to actually point out the errors piece by piece, which you can use constructively, but instead, you put up a defensive.

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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 09:59 AM
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Jerk,

I fail to see what bothers you so much about a native English speaker attempting a little German. I clearly said "I know a tiny bit" so kindly jump off your soapbox and into the sewer.

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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 10:02 AM
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I don't see what would offend you so much about being given some direction on what to look out for by a native English speaker who speaks German daily. You seem enthused about German. It would be a shame to block the learning process with such things as wrong word order and negation usage. The subtlety I was speaking about actually is an elusive concept for many, so you should be glad I threw it your way, as it was a BIG help to me when I realized it later. English is intelligible, even when spoken 90% wrong or more, but not German.
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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 10:14 AM
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I don't see what would offend you so much about being given some direction on what to look out for by a native English speaker who speaks German daily. You seem enthused about German. It would be a shame to block the learning process with such things as wrong word order and negation usage. The subtlety I was speaking about actually is an elusive concept for many, so you should be glad I threw it your way, as it was a BIG help to me when I realized it later. English is intelligible, even when spoken 90% wrong or more, but not German.
Being a polyglot is not generally appreciated around here.

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post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 10:14 AM
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I was not offended at all and I do appreciate your help. And you're certainly correct that I am enthused about the German language. Unfortunately, I am getting too old to learn a new language. I studied French and now am incapable with that as well. I can understand "Mein Deutsch ist nicht sehr gut" and I will try to remember that phrase.

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post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 10:22 AM
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Believe it or not, if you know French and English, you have a good heads up on many elements of the vocabulary. German has influenced English greatly, as has many languages, including Latin and French. Conversely, English is now influencing German, especially scientific language (a point that makes it especially difficult for me in my daily life, as I sometimes don't know if I can germanize English terminology). French also is prevalent in German, and oddly, after learning German, and going to France, I was able to pretty much understand everything around me in written language, even though I forgot French COMPLETELY from years ago. So this "trio" of languages can really be very helpful. I would recommend from the beginning, as I do when I counsel new students looking to study in Germany, as I curently do as well, to know the cases and deklinationen inside and out, even before trying to figure out what they actually do. Had I done this in the beginning, had a teacher identified my weaknesses in the beginning, I would have had a MUCH easier time later. It was only by chance that I noted my deklination problems a mere six weeks before my exam which was to get me into the university. My teacher admitted knowing, but was not motivated enough to tell me, nor many others, what their weaknesses were.

Basically, build every sentence around the verb, that is the essence of German structures, and on top of that, they don't always go in the same position. Nebensatze still present problems for me, as they are a bit against a train of thinking. I also analyze the mistakes German speakers make when speaking English, which has actually helped me speak better German through understanding why they worded something wrong in English. It's actually fascinating how German works and opened things up when I realized how big an impact subtle stuff makes on the outcome.


Edit: and this is where Rosette Stone is dangerous- they don't explain structurization of the cases, nor the deklinations, and there are "overlaps", so one doesn't really know how to use the cases, nor express themselves clearly due to it. The program is ok when one already knows how to speak German, but in my opinion, having tried it myself and then coming here and not being able to speak German, and having a half dozen, highly motivated friends try, I conceded that the program simply does not work.

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post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 10:23 AM
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I think I found the Castle its the Albrechtsburg Meissen castle.

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post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 10:31 AM
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That's 15 minutes from me, in Saxony. I've been there. The roads are long and steep, and don't really look like that anymore. The mountains are curious, as the Saechsiche Scheweiz are not that close, nor is there a road where one can drive and see mountains in the distance. I live much closer to the mountains, and they aren't that incredibly high, like the Alps, nor are they really so close and open that one can see them, even by looking direct from the Elbe. They are visible, but nowhere near as visible as these commercials make like.

So if we're going by your assertion, they filmed this commercial in EAST GERMANY?

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I think I found the Castle its the Albrechtsburg Meissen castle.
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post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 10:49 AM
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Looks like I was way off. I lived in Baden Wurtenberg for 11 years. Do you agree with my find or could I be off?

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