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putting a mercedes diesel into a ford crown victoria police car

14K views 23 replies 10 participants last post by  chris_arg 
#1 ·
i would like to implant a diesel into a late model ford crown victoria police car. i think the cummins is too heavy and loud. what other engine would be a good choice? i want to hot rod the engine for performance. i want it to really scream.

i thought about a 5 cylinder mercedes. i am not sure which mercedes engine is the best choice. anyone know the best of the best implantable mercedes diesel? what year and model of mercedes would i find it from? where could i find one? what performance upgrades could i do?

i want the performance to be wayyy better than the stock 4.6 gas engine in the crown vic.
the transmission in a ford crown vic police car is a 4r70w. bauman engineering makes a stand alone controller for the transmission. but how can i mate the mercedes to the tranny? is it possible to take the motor and a tranny to a machine shop and have an adapter made at a reasonable price? what should i do?

any other hot rod diesel engine choices out there?
i also want the engine to not be too..too heavy like the cummins is. and it has to be within the realm of affordability also. and the quieter the better.

how loud are mercedes diesel 5 cylinders compared to other engines?

i would possibly consider a jap diesel if its possible to have parts availability and performance upgrades etc....

the reason for choosing a ford crown vic is because...i want an affordable body and chassis. the ford crown vic is a full frame car. it handles well. suspension upgrades are available. its stealthy and looks like a sleeper. and if i am driving my hot rod at a fast pace...i wanna at least attempt to fool a cop that i meet that maybe my car is a cop car also. etc... plus..crown vics are plentiful. and if i make a good package out of the diesel crown vic combo...i can sell a few to a friend who has a taxi service. he can run biodiesel..or WVO.

ok...please give me some advice here! thanks!
 
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#2 ·
Do realize how much Crown Vics weight? Around 5500 pounds! So your chances of having a Diesel "hot rod" are very slim.

I once drove a 1996 E300 diesel that was dog slow and that was Mercedes' newer inline-6 six diesel pushing around a 3538 LB car! :eek:

So I couldn't imagine how a 5500 pound Crown Vic with the older inline 5 would move. :eek:
 
#3 · (Edited)
In all respect, this is almost impossible, doable yes. You would need an entire engine trans package, motor mounts are probably doable, drive shaft can be machined, I dont know about the length of the engine because Crown Vics never were designed for a six cylinder. I dont know where you got handling from, the "interceptor" package makes them reasonably fast, but dont corner well at all. Ithink Audi was doing some grand prix work.
I would think swapping in a hot engine from Ford performance products would make sense. Diesel naaaa.
 
#4 · (Edited)
In all respect, this is almost impossible, doable yes. You would need an entire engine trans package, motor mounts are probably doable, drive shaft can be machined, I dont know about the length of the engine because Crown Vics never were designed for a six cylinder. I dont know where you got handling from, the "interceptor" package makes them reasonably fast, but dont corner well at all. Ithink Audi was doing some grand prix work.
I would think swapping in a hot engine from Ford performance products would make sense. Diesel naaaa.
That is what I was thinking, or modding the stock 4.6 since there are are ton of after market parts out there.

For such an old design frame car Crown Vics handle pretty well, but not by any means sporty or anything. :D

Where they really shine is on highway speeds, very quit, smooth and you feel like you are floating over the road.
 
#5 ·
If you want to hot rod a Crown Vic, go with Mustang performance goodies. Putting a diesel in a Crown Vic will mean monkeying with federal emissions parts. While most areas don't test, this will cause problems if you ever get caught. Making Mustang performance parts meet legal requirments is fairly easy. I just wonder what the extra weight in the front of a P71 Ford will do to handling. I've had one of these and they handle pretty well and have enough power if you know what you're doing to really scoot. Plus, unmodified, they are fairly immune to tickets.
 
#6 ·
more

ok. i dont think its gonna handle like a corvette. i just mean..its a decent handling car for as large as it is. its big. safe. parts are plentiful. its proven. looks cool. and it would be cool to have a turbo diesel that gets good mileage and has lots of power under the hood. bauman engineering makes a stand alone controller for the ford automatic transmission. so all i need to worry about most of all is how to mate te back of the engine up to the ford automatic tranny.

so all of that being said...now....
what is the best engine for an application like this? what year or style? i want to hot rod the engine. an inline 5 cylinder mercedes? inline 6 cylinder? what models? etc....?
 
#7 ·
the most bada$$ mercedes turbo diesel motor for a swap

what is the best turbo diesel engine for power and performance? what year of car did it come in? anything in particular to look for? i want to use a mercedes motor for a swap into another car.
what is the most reliable most awesome mods and setup that can be done on the engine. what horsepower numbers can i expect? i want a totally bada$$ mercedes diesel that is trouble free and can be driven coast to coast with no reliability issues.
thanks!
 
#8 ·
I have a P71 Crown Vic so you must be dreaming if you think you're going to get better performance with a small diesel engine. Add better cams or DOHC SVO/COBRA heads to the 4.6 and a bigger exhaust. A larger front swa bay is also available from ADDCO.

My advice, forget it.

It would be illegal as well since you need to replace the engine with one the same year or newer.

Go visit the Crown Vic Forums.

Crownvic.net - Powered by UBB.threads™
 
#9 ·
I just love the topics where lot of replies come from people having absolutely no experience on the subject :D
Putting 1996-era diesel with 134 HP into Crown Victoria will not do it, but putting 300 HP diesel from Volkswagen would let you push some buildings around.
Check youtube for VW Tuareg towing 150 tons Boeing 747.
Leaving the dream part, the 174 HP 300dt or 201 HP 320cdi are very nice engines, but dealing with computers would probably take longer than swapping the engine and adding plate for the transmission.
In another words it would make very nice, but extremely expensive Crown Victoria.
 
#10 ·
I just love the topics where lot of replies come from people having absolutely no experience on the subject :D
Putting 1996-era diesel with 134 HP into Crown Victoria will not do it, but putting 300 HP diesel from Volkswagen would let you push some buildings around.
Check youtube for VW Tuareg towing 150 tons Boeing 747.
Leaving the dream part, the 174 HP 300dt or 201 HP 320cdi are very nice engines, but dealing with computers would probably take longer than swapping the engine and adding plate for the transmission.
In another words it would make very nice, but extremely expensive Crown Victoria.

Riiiight, first find a V10 VW diesel engine. Even if you did, I could not imagine how much the seller would want for it. Besides the OP was referring specifically to Mercedes inline 5 engines.

Can it be done? I'm sure with enough $$ and determination it can. If someone can put an Audi V8 into an old Lotus Esprit, this can be done too.

However wouldn't it be just much cheaper and easier to just buy a used Touareg V10? :confused:
 
#12 ·
Ok. Why do I get the feeling you have no significant hot rodding or fabrication experience?

This sounds like my fiancee's 17 year old daydreaming in technicolor. No knowledge, but lots of hope:)

Check out hot rod magazine or the like and look up engine swap kit manufacturers. Why wouldn't you look at swapping a ford 7.3 into a ford?

There are lots around, good hp parts available and a lot better chance of finding commonality of bolt patterns, transmissions etc. The stock diesel has 215 hp to start and you could start at a ford boneyard. Look up the stock transmissons that were available in both the gas and diesel models.

Remember also that these are heavy motors as compared to the same size gas blocks.

Why do you want the car to fool a police car anyway? Do you have a shop with the tools to pull the motor, weld brackets and fabricate parts? If not, you're going to end up with a really expensive average car.

I don't mean to be totally negative here, but I've see too much of this stuff amounting to nothing but a pile of parts and wasted money. In the meantime, do some research and see if its really what you want to do. And here's a lead for you to get started.

Find the article in "Fast company" online about the guy who converted a hummer to run on a gm diesel using vegetable oil and hydrogen. He's also featured in Pimp my Ride, smoking a Lamborghini........ with a 63 Impala diesel :D

Good Luck
 
#13 ·
why not?

ok.
look. i am in the earthmoving business. my dad started in the early 60's. i am now 33.
i have worked on heavy equipment all my life. we have a shop. welders. and i send parts to a machine shop every week.
so i do have experience somewhat.

but... havent fooled with mercedes cars or diesels much. i have fooled with liebherr heavy equipment that had a few mercedes power plants.

so...i thought maybe i would get a warm welcome as a new member on this site. not...people saying they dont like people daydreaming up ideas like the one i have.
this is a forum? why not ask a question like this? and for someone saying i should do research...well...i am doing research! that is why i am asking!
i also joined several other boards on the internet. i joined superturbodiesel.com performance turbo diesel mercedes, W123, W116 and up. OM617, OM60X. i joined shuman automotive.com. i joined www.4btswaps.com.
i am aware of the crown victoria forum. i used to be a member there as well years ago. i have owned several police cars in the past.
i have done a cummins 12 valve conversion on a 1989 f-350 of mine..but as soon as i got the motor in...someone came by and purchased the truck from me.
i have installed detroit diesels into varios machines we built in our shop.

so...i would say i have experience..and i am not stupid...and i think its a very worthy question to ask.
in fact...i have probably turned more bolts than those who have criticized me for thinking of such a converion and asking about it on here. if someone doesnt like me asking...why was my post interesting enough for you to want to read it and comment on it here? and if you dont believe i have experience in heavy equipment..u can meet me in person...i can show you my caterpillar equipment in use every day, powerstroke diesel work trucks...tractor trailers to haul equipment...and even the old junk yard of 40 years of worn out equipment my dad and i own.

so i wanna learn about mercedes and join a forum to research. and thats what i am doing.

to those who were kind enough to respond to my post with a kind response..thank you. i appreciate it.

so back to my crown victoria idea. .....

is the automatic that usually comes with the 5 cylinder mercedes diesel...is it just as heavy application as the 4r70w that comes in the stock police interceptor crown victoria?

oh..by the way...i managed my brother in laws transmission shop for a year. i built my own 4r70w transmission once. can be a very good transmission. bauman engineering makes a stand alone controller for the tranny. connecting the tranny to the benz diesel is my biggest fear. i am not saying i am a transmission expert..and i never touched a mercedes transmission. most of the time i was in the management position. but i promise you i can build a caterpillar powershift transmission. but im not saying i am an expert. i just dont have mercedes experience.

so...

the idea behind the crown vic is...i like the dang cars. but i want good fuel mileage. and i love to play with diesel engines. its a heavy car. torque is needed. diesels build torque. why not put a diesel in it?

can i modify a mercedes diesel for a reasonable cost to have as good as...or better performance than the stock 4.6 and get better mileage?

would another diesel engine be better suited? isnt the vw turbodiesel a new engine that would be very expensive?

this forum is supposed to be fun. whats wrong with brainstorming and seeing new ideas. wow.

thanks to all who support my project!
 
#23 ·
ok.
look. i am in the earthmoving business. my dad started in the early 60's. i am now 33.
i have worked on heavy equipment all my life. we have a shop. welders. and i send parts to a machine shop every week.
so i do have experience somewhat.

but... havent fooled with mercedes cars or diesels much. i have fooled with liebherr heavy equipment that had a few mercedes power plants.

so...i thought maybe i would get a warm welcome as a new member on this site. not...people saying they dont like people daydreaming up ideas like the one i have.
this is a forum? why not ask a question like this? and for someone saying i should do research...well...i am doing research! that is why i am asking!
i also joined several other boards on the internet. i joined superturbodiesel.com performance turbo diesel mercedes, W123, W116 and up. OM617, OM60X. i joined shuman automotive.com. i joined www.4btswaps.com.
i am aware of the crown victoria forum. i used to be a member there as well years ago. i have owned several police cars in the past.
i have done a cummins 12 valve conversion on a 1989 f-350 of mine..but as soon as i got the motor in...someone came by and purchased the truck from me.
i have installed detroit diesels into varios machines we built in our shop.

so...i would say i have experience..and i am not stupid...and i think its a very worthy question to ask.
in fact...i have probably turned more bolts than those who have criticized me for thinking of such a converion and asking about it on here. if someone doesnt like me asking...why was my post interesting enough for you to want to read it and comment on it here? and if you dont believe i have experience in heavy equipment..u can meet me in person...i can show you my caterpillar equipment in use every day, powerstroke diesel work trucks...tractor trailers to haul equipment...and even the old junk yard of 40 years of worn out equipment my dad and i own.

so i wanna learn about mercedes and join a forum to research. and thats what i am doing.

to those who were kind enough to respond to my post with a kind response..thank you. i appreciate it.

so back to my crown victoria idea. .....

is the automatic that usually comes with the 5 cylinder mercedes diesel...is it just as heavy application as the 4r70w that comes in the stock police interceptor crown victoria?

oh..by the way...i managed my brother in laws transmission shop for a year. i built my own 4r70w transmission once. can be a very good transmission. bauman engineering makes a stand alone controller for the tranny. connecting the tranny to the benz diesel is my biggest fear. i am not saying i am a transmission expert..and i never touched a mercedes transmission. most of the time i was in the management position. but i promise you i can build a caterpillar powershift transmission. but im not saying i am an expert. i just dont have mercedes experience.

so...

the idea behind the crown vic is...i like the dang cars. but i want good fuel mileage. and i love to play with diesel engines. its a heavy car. torque is needed. diesels build torque. why not put a diesel in it?

can i modify a mercedes diesel for a reasonable cost to have as good as...or better performance than the stock 4.6 and get better mileage?

would another diesel engine be better suited? isnt the vw turbodiesel a new engine that would be very expensive?

this forum is supposed to be fun. whats wrong with brainstorming and seeing new ideas. wow.

thanks to all who support my project!

I'm on your side dude. :D I drive crown vics for a living, I'm a cab driver, so I too am looking for a conversion, mainly to save as much $$$ on fuel as possible. During the summer months here in the states, cab business is very slow. Plus, I'm in the Midwest. Makes it even more slow. So, the more $$$ saved, the better.
 
#14 ·
oh...the 7.3 engine is nice. i used to modify the powerstrokes in our worktrucks. but if i was gonna go with an engine that big and heavy....and expensive...i would just use the 5.9 cummins. its tougher..and cheaper and can build massive power. but its heavy too.

an isuzu 3.9 is an option. but i dont know much about getting performance out of those engines. dont know what the engine can take.

i asked a similar question on another forum(even though someone doesnt think i researched this idea...) and look at this cool car someone sent me pics of. scroll down.....click on link:

superturbodiesel.com • View topic - turbo diesel ford crown victoria
 
#15 ·
oh...even though i dont have knowledge on anything....my brother in law has a hummer with a 6.5 turbo. we are looking to do a conversion to a cummins diesel in it. i have had numerous work trucks. i always avoid the gm diesels...(except for the latest duramax's) because of obvious reasons. i really dont like them. might be a cool engine to put in a caprice police car if a person upgraded the engine and fixed all of the flaws those engines had. but since i would have to fab motor mounts anyways in the crown vic....id rather skip the 6.5 or 6.2 gm diesel.
a duramax swap would be cool...but very expensive and a wiring nightmare. (sounds like i may have "researched" a little bit??)

but i admit i dont know much about mercedes diesels. but i am seeing lots of car online putting out 400 horsepower with a 5 cylinder diesel and getting reliability and good mpg. why wouldnt a 400 horsepower mercedes diesel be enough for a ford crown vic?
 
#19 ·
Wasn't meant that way.....

I'm sorry if you saw that as me making a slight against you. That wasn't my intent.

The kind of questions you asked, without the background you just provided gave me the impression of someone who had no mechanical experience and/or no automotive background. Clearly, now, I see you do.

If I had meant it all as a negative, I would not have been trying to give you some places to start, like the fast co article.

Its good on you if you have the desire to create something unique, fast and efficient. For my part, I have over the years had project basket cases dropped into my lap to be rescued, by people with little experience and not well thought out ideas. In some cases they were fixable, in many, the mistakes were so costly, that it was not worth going forward.

I didn't explain what I was getting at and why, so here's a few examples.

I have seen tie rod ends that were for the wrong vehicle, wired on; one guy trying to fit 2 sets of brake pads from a small import onto a 2 piston domestic caliper asking me to install them for him; another guy cutting chassis supports to make an exhaust pipe fit and then the car collapsed in the middle when the doors were opened; an early 70's Duster with 3" thick bondo to fix deep dents that were never taken out; a Mercedes and an MGB that had their entire rusted out rocker panels filled with bondo which came out in chunks a week after it went in; attempts to fix cracks in a frame with JB weld; and something a bit more exotic, like putting a turbo and nitrous on a 12.5:1 compression engine ( he was lucky it lasted 2 days).

All I wanted was to make sure you knew what you were doing, and had thought it all through. Then give you an idea of what you could achieve if you could do it. And the reason I asked you about why you wanted to fool the police, is that the last guy that told me that, turned out to be a drug dealer, trying to be stealthy who if he got found out wanted to try to outrun them!

Anyhow, good luck in your project. You may also want to see if Kelmark engineering has a swap kit for the engine/trans combination you choose. I've used their products in the past (Porsche rear engined flat 6 to mid mounted v8 & 350 Lt1 in a Corvair mid engined set up ). :thumbsup:

Pronto
 
#20 ·
thanks

alright man. thanks for your reply. i over reacted..lol

what i am think also is this....a cheap american body car...big, safe, full frame, common, easy to work on, and can carry people.
but it needs a diesel.
cummins is sooo loud. plus heavy.
isuzu 4bt...maybe. similar in some ways to cummins. a tad quieter.

mercedes...small...but borderline useful. and yes...a heavy car.
i know if i went with the latest model diesels...they are powerful. but they are computerized...and will need all that plus they are very expensive and i would have to have donor cars.

what would work best in a crown victoria? hmmm.
any other suggestions?japanese diesels?

it would be a cool car because taxi drivers may catch on to the car for mpg and reliability. long distance travelers. commuters. people like that.
but also..id like to make it an affordable set up...and easily repaired...and modifiable. hot roddable......
 
#22 ·
hahaha. thats a pretty huge engine.

but seriously.

i am seeing now that finding a mercedes diesel is going to be impossible for this car. unless i found a newish year model engine that would cost ultra money and be a computer and wiring nightmare.

but if anyone can think of a proper engine for my application, i would love to hear of it.

the guy that is putting that cummins 24 valve 6 cylinder diesel in that mercedes car is gonna have a nose heavy car! but wow. can u imagine that at the drag racing track!

anyone ever see that duramax powered 62 impala? search for it on youtube. it beats a lamborghini by a landslide in the quartermile. amazing.
 
#24 ·
I don't know if you have them in the US but the OM628 v8 diesel from the W163 ML400cdi is a nice alternative.

I've been hunting for a replacement for my ml320 lately and I found them ml400s to be relatively quiet, loads of torque, moderate fuel consumption and for what i've seen you can get a remap, up the turbo pressure and get nice gains.

Check this out
 
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