putting a mercedes diesel into a ford crown victoria police car - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-30-2008, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CLK Operator View Post
However wouldn't it be just much cheaper and easier to just buy a used Touareg V10?
Probably would if you have to pay fair price for the labor. You can find 2-3 years old Touareg tdi for only slightly above $60,000
But than OP wants to play with his Crown Victoria. Maybe he can buy Mercedes engine for $300 and have a weld shop on his backyard?
Even with only 201 HP from 320cdi, it still would be nice and very economical car.
In the past I've seen converted cars in Poland all the time. Labor was cheap, diesel 30% cheaper than gasoline so lot of professional mechanics took luxury Wolga car, or sometimes Caddilac and installed used MB engines. The performance was poor, because 20 years ago the best MB diesel had 112 HP, but in life you never can have everything.

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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-30-2008, 09:33 PM
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Ok. Why do I get the feeling you have no significant hot rodding or fabrication experience?

This sounds like my fiancee's 17 year old daydreaming in technicolor. No knowledge, but lots of hope

Check out hot rod magazine or the like and look up engine swap kit manufacturers. Why wouldn't you look at swapping a ford 7.3 into a ford?

There are lots around, good hp parts available and a lot better chance of finding commonality of bolt patterns, transmissions etc. The stock diesel has 215 hp to start and you could start at a ford boneyard. Look up the stock transmissons that were available in both the gas and diesel models.

Remember also that these are heavy motors as compared to the same size gas blocks.

Why do you want the car to fool a police car anyway? Do you have a shop with the tools to pull the motor, weld brackets and fabricate parts? If not, you're going to end up with a really expensive average car.

I don't mean to be totally negative here, but I've see too much of this stuff amounting to nothing but a pile of parts and wasted money. In the meantime, do some research and see if its really what you want to do. And here's a lead for you to get started.

Find the article in "Fast company" online about the guy who converted a hummer to run on a gm diesel using vegetable oil and hydrogen. He's also featured in Pimp my Ride, smoking a Lamborghini........ with a 63 Impala diesel

Good Luck
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-01-2008, 12:26 AM Thread Starter
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why not?

ok.
look. i am in the earthmoving business. my dad started in the early 60's. i am now 33.
i have worked on heavy equipment all my life. we have a shop. welders. and i send parts to a machine shop every week.
so i do have experience somewhat.

but... havent fooled with mercedes cars or diesels much. i have fooled with liebherr heavy equipment that had a few mercedes power plants.

so...i thought maybe i would get a warm welcome as a new member on this site. not...people saying they dont like people daydreaming up ideas like the one i have.
this is a forum? why not ask a question like this? and for someone saying i should do research...well...i am doing research! that is why i am asking!
i also joined several other boards on the internet. i joined superturbodiesel.com performance turbo diesel mercedes, W123, W116 and up. OM617, OM60X. i joined shuman automotive.com. i joined www.4btswaps.com.
i am aware of the crown victoria forum. i used to be a member there as well years ago. i have owned several police cars in the past.
i have done a cummins 12 valve conversion on a 1989 f-350 of mine..but as soon as i got the motor in...someone came by and purchased the truck from me.
i have installed detroit diesels into varios machines we built in our shop.

so...i would say i have experience..and i am not stupid...and i think its a very worthy question to ask.
in fact...i have probably turned more bolts than those who have criticized me for thinking of such a converion and asking about it on here. if someone doesnt like me asking...why was my post interesting enough for you to want to read it and comment on it here? and if you dont believe i have experience in heavy equipment..u can meet me in person...i can show you my caterpillar equipment in use every day, powerstroke diesel work trucks...tractor trailers to haul equipment...and even the old junk yard of 40 years of worn out equipment my dad and i own.

so i wanna learn about mercedes and join a forum to research. and thats what i am doing.

to those who were kind enough to respond to my post with a kind response..thank you. i appreciate it.

so back to my crown victoria idea. .....

is the automatic that usually comes with the 5 cylinder mercedes diesel...is it just as heavy application as the 4r70w that comes in the stock police interceptor crown victoria?

oh..by the way...i managed my brother in laws transmission shop for a year. i built my own 4r70w transmission once. can be a very good transmission. bauman engineering makes a stand alone controller for the tranny. connecting the tranny to the benz diesel is my biggest fear. i am not saying i am a transmission expert..and i never touched a mercedes transmission. most of the time i was in the management position. but i promise you i can build a caterpillar powershift transmission. but im not saying i am an expert. i just dont have mercedes experience.

so...

the idea behind the crown vic is...i like the dang cars. but i want good fuel mileage. and i love to play with diesel engines. its a heavy car. torque is needed. diesels build torque. why not put a diesel in it?

can i modify a mercedes diesel for a reasonable cost to have as good as...or better performance than the stock 4.6 and get better mileage?

would another diesel engine be better suited? isnt the vw turbodiesel a new engine that would be very expensive?

this forum is supposed to be fun. whats wrong with brainstorming and seeing new ideas. wow.

thanks to all who support my project!
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-01-2008, 12:30 AM Thread Starter
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oh...the 7.3 engine is nice. i used to modify the powerstrokes in our worktrucks. but if i was gonna go with an engine that big and heavy....and expensive...i would just use the 5.9 cummins. its tougher..and cheaper and can build massive power. but its heavy too.

an isuzu 3.9 is an option. but i dont know much about getting performance out of those engines. dont know what the engine can take.

i asked a similar question on another forum(even though someone doesnt think i researched this idea...) and look at this cool car someone sent me pics of. scroll down.....click on link:

superturbodiesel.com • View topic - turbo diesel ford crown victoria
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-01-2008, 12:36 AM Thread Starter
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oh...even though i dont have knowledge on anything....my brother in law has a hummer with a 6.5 turbo. we are looking to do a conversion to a cummins diesel in it. i have had numerous work trucks. i always avoid the gm diesels...(except for the latest duramax's) because of obvious reasons. i really dont like them. might be a cool engine to put in a caprice police car if a person upgraded the engine and fixed all of the flaws those engines had. but since i would have to fab motor mounts anyways in the crown vic....id rather skip the 6.5 or 6.2 gm diesel.
a duramax swap would be cool...but very expensive and a wiring nightmare. (sounds like i may have "researched" a little bit??)

but i admit i dont know much about mercedes diesels. but i am seeing lots of car online putting out 400 horsepower with a 5 cylinder diesel and getting reliability and good mpg. why wouldnt a 400 horsepower mercedes diesel be enough for a ford crown vic?
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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-01-2008, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by encyclopediadictionary View Post
oh...even though i dont have knowledge on anything....my brother in law has a hummer with a 6.5 turbo. we are looking to do a conversion to a cummins diesel in it. i have had numerous work trucks. i always avoid the gm diesels...(except for the latest duramax's) because of obvious reasons. i really dont like them. might be a cool engine to put in a caprice police car if a person upgraded the engine and fixed all of the flaws those engines had. but since i would have to fab motor mounts anyways in the crown vic....id rather skip the 6.5 or 6.2 gm diesel.
a duramax swap would be cool...but very expensive and a wiring nightmare. (sounds like i may have "researched" a little bit??)

but i admit i dont know much about mercedes diesels. but i am seeing lots of car online putting out 400 horsepower with a 5 cylinder diesel and getting reliability and good mpg. why wouldnt a 400 horsepower mercedes diesel be enough for a ford crown vic?
You correct about avoiding anything gm, it's all shit.


Show me the 400HP Mercedes 5 cylinder, I didn't think that was even possible.
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-01-2008, 10:15 AM
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Since we are comparing MB and American diesels, I own 201 HP MB in one car and 230 HP in Ford pickup.
I think I could lift Mercedes engine, while Ford's short block is 900 lb and I need steep stool to check the oil.
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-01-2008, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Kajtek1 View Post
I just love the topics where lot of replies come from people having absolutely no experience on the subject
Typical forum replies, nothing new.

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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-01-2008, 02:36 PM
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Wasn't meant that way.....

I'm sorry if you saw that as me making a slight against you. That wasn't my intent.

The kind of questions you asked, without the background you just provided gave me the impression of someone who had no mechanical experience and/or no automotive background. Clearly, now, I see you do.

If I had meant it all as a negative, I would not have been trying to give you some places to start, like the fast co article.

Its good on you if you have the desire to create something unique, fast and efficient. For my part, I have over the years had project basket cases dropped into my lap to be rescued, by people with little experience and not well thought out ideas. In some cases they were fixable, in many, the mistakes were so costly, that it was not worth going forward.

I didn't explain what I was getting at and why, so here's a few examples.

I have seen tie rod ends that were for the wrong vehicle, wired on; one guy trying to fit 2 sets of brake pads from a small import onto a 2 piston domestic caliper asking me to install them for him; another guy cutting chassis supports to make an exhaust pipe fit and then the car collapsed in the middle when the doors were opened; an early 70's Duster with 3" thick bondo to fix deep dents that were never taken out; a Mercedes and an MGB that had their entire rusted out rocker panels filled with bondo which came out in chunks a week after it went in; attempts to fix cracks in a frame with JB weld; and something a bit more exotic, like putting a turbo and nitrous on a 12.5:1 compression engine ( he was lucky it lasted 2 days).

All I wanted was to make sure you knew what you were doing, and had thought it all through. Then give you an idea of what you could achieve if you could do it. And the reason I asked you about why you wanted to fool the police, is that the last guy that told me that, turned out to be a drug dealer, trying to be stealthy who if he got found out wanted to try to outrun them!

Anyhow, good luck in your project. You may also want to see if Kelmark engineering has a swap kit for the engine/trans combination you choose. I've used their products in the past (Porsche rear engined flat 6 to mid mounted v8 & 350 Lt1 in a Corvair mid engined set up ).

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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-02-2008, 12:01 AM Thread Starter
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thanks

alright man. thanks for your reply. i over reacted..lol

what i am think also is this....a cheap american body car...big, safe, full frame, common, easy to work on, and can carry people.
but it needs a diesel.
cummins is sooo loud. plus heavy.
isuzu 4bt...maybe. similar in some ways to cummins. a tad quieter.

mercedes...small...but borderline useful. and yes...a heavy car.
i know if i went with the latest model diesels...they are powerful. but they are computerized...and will need all that plus they are very expensive and i would have to have donor cars.

what would work best in a crown victoria? hmmm.
any other suggestions?japanese diesels?

it would be a cool car because taxi drivers may catch on to the car for mpg and reliability. long distance travelers. commuters. people like that.
but also..id like to make it an affordable set up...and easily repaired...and modifiable. hot roddable......
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