21ST CENTURY MERCEDES BENZ: A DOWNWARD TREJECTORY - Page 4 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #31 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-22-2007, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Wevrick View Post
^^They already commented on how the Passat is unreliable and they want to get rid of it.



True, but IMO buying a C-class means paying Mercedes prices for something no better than a Camry or Accord. What's the point?
Now that I disagree with -

I will be along the front of the line saying MB reliability has dipped - but as I have driven every available C class from the 230 to the 55 - they are NOT wallowy grand-pa hawlers like the camrygon and accord ...............
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post #32 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-22-2007, 04:01 PM Thread Starter
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What do you buy then?

We test drove the Accord EX with the V6 and it although it was more involving than the c350 it was not as enjoyable as the BMW. I am torn between purchasing a preowned (2005) off lease bmw 3 series or test drive the Audi A4 2.0t again. I am weary about the a4's reliability however. The A4's interior is gorgeous as well as it's fit 'n finish. When I first test drove the 2.0t I was initially disappointed by the anemic, novocaine like steering box (similar but not as bad as the Passat).

Does anyone have any experience with the Mini Cooper S?

Anyone have suggestions?

Thanks in advance.
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post #33 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-22-2007, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MarcusF View Post
Nicole Koon and Sam Gross,

You tested an "entry level" vehicle. For higher quality materials you may wish to consider something other than entry level. In your "opinion" Mercedes-Benz builds unreliable cars. That being the case, you may have done the right thing in sticking with Volkswagen. After all, you'd hate to find yourself with an "unreliable" car. I hope you enjoy the Passat.

BTW, I did a little research on your car. The 2006 Volkswagen Passat has sixteen TSBs. The TSBs include fixes for the faulty tire pressure monitoring system, the bad coolant hose clips, the transmission fluid leaks due to faulty o-rings, the inoperative hood latch, the faulty AC flow control, the bad power steering electronics, the emission control failures, the moisture that seeps into the headlamp housing, the inoperative side airbag igniter, faulty Xenons, the harsh shifting transmissions, and the faulty memory within the ECU.

After all this, I'd think the MB would look inviting.
LOL. erm, the 3 series is entry level, but when you enter one, theres litte/no sign of it, aside from the small cabin space. wheres your justification?

and to the guy making the choice, what are you looking for in your car? i mean, its a tough call, audi vs bmw, but bmw is hella more performance oriented. sure an audi is nice and all, but if ur going to be tracking your car, then BMW is the surefire choice. personally, im not a fan of the audi's interior, i think its shit and falls apart after 5 months of use (being a previous owner of several audi's). my 3 series is a year old, and every knob, button, and switch works like the car were brand new, theres no paint or anything coming off, the fit and finish is impeccable still, really i cant see myself buying an audi. once i went bmw, my audi sales associate misses me lol.

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post #34 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-23-2007, 07:41 AM
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Well, just picked up my 08 ML550 on Saturday, the first MB we have owned since a 190 in the 80's (we were in Germany, and it was a terrific vehicle). My initial impression is good, with the exception of the 'COMAND' system. If this is the 'Mercedes Benz' of the auto electronics environment, then I am concerned about what else I missed in evaluating the ML550. The interface is clumsy, the features are 90's (my 4 year old Garmin hand held is better than the Nav system), the radio seems to be an electronic version of the radio I had in my car in the 60's... Hopefully all these issues are due to my unfamiliarity with the system, but I can certainly see why the japanese are outselling MB in our new techno world. Sigh.
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post #35 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-23-2007, 08:32 AM
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Ok maybe I am reading this thread wrong, but there seems to be alot of questions and references to BMW and VW and other marques.

If we are on a MB forum because we own a MB then we have either accepted MB build quality or we are bitching about it and then will sell it and move on.

My C350 is my 4th MB and if i do have problems MB will sort them out (even if my local dealer is not particularily great) because MB want to, I guess what i am saying is if i am going to own a car and acknowledge that all cars have problems, i would rather MB be backing me up than say Toyota or VW.

For reference i used to work in a VW dealership (many years ago) and the manufacturers back up was poor to say the least! We really are spoilt with Mb.

And for all of you without MB you are on the wrong forum!
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post #36 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-23-2007, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Wevrick View Post
^^They already commented on how the Passat is unreliable and they want to get rid of it.


He also wrote "After my experience with the c-350 I was so glad to return drive home in my '06 Passat." If he feels the Passat, with all thats wrong with it, is a better choice than a new C, then as I said – "he" may have done the right thing in sticking with his Volkswagen. He’s an adult. He made a decision, and per his post he’s glad he made it. Someone has to drive the Passat, I guess it’s him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Wevrick View Post
True, but IMO buying a C-class means paying Mercedes prices for something no better than a Camry or Accord. What's the point?
What’s the point? The poster doesn’t like the "materials" in the car. In the US, Mercedes-Benz considers the C to be their entry level car. For higher quality "materials", he may wish to consider something other than the entry level. Perhaps an E, which has different "materials". The poster seemed to get it, I’m unclear why you don’t. If you feel the Camry and Accord are good alternatives, I’m sure the poster will give those vehicles the appropriate consideration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Koon and Sam Gross View Post
We test drove the Accord EX with the V6 and it although it was more involving than the c350 it was not as enjoyable as the BMW. I am torn between purchasing a preowned (2005) off lease bmw 3 series or test drive the Audi A4 2.0t again. I am weary about the a4's reliability however. The A4's interior is gorgeous as well as it's fit 'n finish. When I first test drove the 2.0t I was initially disappointed by the anemic, novocaine like steering box (similar but not as bad as the Passat)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Koon and Sam Gross View Post
Does anyone have any experience with the Mini Cooper S?
Anyone have suggestions?
Thanks in advance.

I’ve reviewed the Mini every year for the past several years. It’s a very good handling front wheel drive car. That said, it will never handle as well as a BMW 3 series. You repeatedly post about vague steering feel. Severely reduced steering feel is a trait of front wheel drive cars. Some front wheel drive cars do a better job of masking this problem than others, but rear wheel drive cars typically have much better steering feel. As an aside, there is a difference between steering feel, and heaviness. Some manufacturers with suspension designs that transmit poor feel attempt to mask that by reducing boost.

As for suggestions, the Accord EX, BMW 3 series, and Mini are all very different vehicles. Personal preference would play too big a factor. To me, the 3 series would be the only choice among those three.
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post #37 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-24-2007, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Koon and Sam Gross View Post
We test drove the Accord EX with the V6 and it although it was more involving than the c350 it was not as enjoyable as the BMW. I am torn between purchasing a preowned (2005) off lease bmw 3 series or test drive the Audi A4 2.0t again. I am weary about the a4's reliability however. The A4's interior is gorgeous as well as it's fit 'n finish. When I first test drove the 2.0t I was initially disappointed by the anemic, novocaine like steering box (similar but not as bad as the Passat).

Does anyone have any experience with the Mini Cooper S?

Anyone have suggestions?

Thanks in advance.
If you are willing to consider the Mini or Accord you should also try the Subaru Impreza WRX and Legacy GT. They are well-designed, fun to drive, and very reliable.
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post #38 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-24-2007, 03:56 PM
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I have to admit, I'm getting a little worried about reliability of our car. It's a 2004 CLK 55 AMG with 39,000 miles, and it seems that it has one little issue after another.

It is about to go back into the shop with another list of items to be fixed:
Lever knobs on seat fall off
Lower passenger lumbar adjustment does not work
Passenger headrest has a mind of it's own
Passenger seat sometimes will fold but not tumble
Steering wheel intermittently does not lower upon starting car
Passenger rearview mirror does not return properly after putting car in "D"
Strangely, sometimes passenger rearview mirror will lower even with "back assist" off
Driver's seat heater inoperative

Sadly, the car was just in the shop last week for the passenger headrest.

We are considering purchasing an extended warranty to cover these items. There is really no other car out there IMO like the CLK 55, we love the car, just afraid of ongoing issues and costs.
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post #39 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-25-2007, 08:20 AM
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^^We bought an extended warranty because of similar problems with our car, but discovered that even the ones with the most complete coverage still exclude things like knobs. They also only cover minimal diagnostic time, or sometimes none at all, so that if you have a complex problem that takes the techs many hours to figure out, they only pay to replace the part, not the diagnostic time.
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post #40 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-25-2007, 11:52 AM
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My ride is pretty stable, it has its quirks, but the car almost eight years old. It has less technology in it than the more modern successors but I feel that if you maintain a car right, then it will run the right way.

Let's face it, a lemon is a lemon, but a good car that is poorly maintained is someone's damn fault.

I know a lot of luxury and/or sports luxury owners who will buy a car, at the lowest possible price they can, cut every corner to not maintain it or take it to the shop, buy the cheapest parts, fill it with regular, so on and so on...then when their cars start to produce problems, they complain about how the brand is a rip off and a the car in question is a big piece of dung.

These cars, no matter how low the prices may drop and depreciate, are still expensive to maintain, even years and years down the line, the parts are still going to be expensive. If you can't afford the parts, mechanic labor and maintenance, you can't afford the car.

The point I'm trying to make is that I think when people complain, most of the time it's either A, because the car is a lemon, or B, it's because they fail to keep up with taking care of it.

I say just get the car if you like it, just because Johnny B. Reviewer says he doesn't like it doesn't mean no one should buy it. If I buy the car I like and get the 'ONE' out of ten that works, I don't care if the other nine don't work, mine does, and I love it. If not, then it's back to the drawing board.
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