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#21 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 12:22 AM
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The Towncar, I am with Nightbird on this

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Originally Posted by Nightbird View Post
I know most people on this board don't want to hear this, afterall, we are silver star lovers here, but, you can't forget about the good'ole Lincoln Town Car, although it is easy to thanks to Ford not doing it justice and refusing to seriously update it beyond color schemes and chrome grills, even though it is it's bread and butter seller. Here is what J.D. Powers has to say about them:

" The Town Car is the highest-rated American car in the mid-luxury segment, according to a J.D. Power and Associates customer-satisfaction study; 60 percent of all Town Car customers are repeat buyers. Some 75 percent of limousine and livery fleets are made up of this large American luxury sedan. Yet individuals still account for more than 65 percent of all Town Car sales."

And:

" Town Car was the first car to receive the government’s five-star crash test safety rating in all five categories, including rollover protection, and has earned that distinction three years in a row."


And then theres this:

" DETROIT — Although Ford Motor (F) was the only domestic automaker to rank above industry average on J.D. Power's influential Initial Quality Study released Wednesday, industry watchers say domestic automakers remain close to closing the quality gap with import automakers.
Of the top 12 brands, three are owned by Ford, including Lincoln, which ranked third. Import automakers topped the list, with Porsche in first place and Toyota's luxury brand Lexus in second. "

As a former Lincoln owner (it was stolen), I can tell you I really loved that car. The steering was fluid and light as a feather, the ride was plush (what pot holes?), and the engine strong to the end. It didn't corner as well as my 5000SEL, but it did do it's main job, which was to get me from point A to B in alot of comfort. If and when my 500SEL bows out, I will probably go back to Lincoln..but not sure, as I love the looks of my car and admiring glances I get from my Benz. Ahh vanity.. =)
I am on the same page with you on this, as I have owned a couple of the downmarket cousins to the Town Car, the Ford Crown Victoria, basically the same car on the same chassis.

I kept them up well, and they were anvil reliable, absolute dirt cheap to run, mile for mile, and delivered plenty of comfort, room, reliability and durability.

Nonetheless I was ridiculed by my wife and all my friends for driving these cars.

I have a 560SEC now, which I like but needs some work on it at 119,000 miles.

Seriously considered getting rid of it in favor of a new or one year old Mercury Grand Marquis with a factory warranty, and almost did it. $18,000 or so will buy quite a lot in this area.

I finally decided to fix up the SEC, as it runs beautifully, and have purchased some W140 wheels, a Euro fire extinguisher and committed to making it a nice, lifetime sort of car.

Incredibly, Ford Motor company for 2008 has discontinued the Crown Vic except to fleet buyers, like Rental companies, Police, Govt and Taxi buyers.

Everyone else would have to buy the Grand Marquis or Lincoln Towncar.

Though probably a TownHouse would make a better investment than an TownCar

Jim
<--- superschnelle 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV, Hochverdichtung = high compression (11/2011) ... Wie im Freien Fall. Nur horizontal.


"I swear to god, it's like I live in a trailer of common sense, and stare out the window at a tornado of stupidity." >'='<
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#22 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ChedengML350 View Post
At first I did not believe these surveys but when I became a MB owner I have no doubts about their accuracy that MB automobiles have below average reliability. Look it, our '06 ML350 is in the shop right now for a chirping sound in the engine area. Last time we had a belt whine. It also has an intermittent brake squeek during soft braking.

Sure they look nice but I would not recommend them due to poor reliability.
I still don't believe them. My ML has been flawless for almost the three years we've had it.
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#23 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Nightbird View Post
Not fast enough for most people. The only happy MB owners I know are the ones who own W126's like mine..everybody else always has something to complain about. One of the biggest issues was that MB outsourced their electronics supplier, among other things. Once they lost manufacturing control by doing this to save a buck, they also lost quality control, hence all the problems these vehicles suffered after the W126 which has now seriously tarnished their reputation. However, if there's one thing I've noticed, it's that MB owners are willing to sacrifice alot of time, money and frustration to keep these cars going, even if MB itself doesn't seem to give a damn. The president of MB finally owned up to all these problems a few years ago claiming it was all the outsourcing they did that caused it, and they stated they were going to curtail this and hence the new models wouldn't suffer the quality probs every model after the W126 suffered...but only time will tell if he was being honest about this or just trying to make people feel comfortable to shell out all that cash for a new one. Personally, it's not a gamble I'm willing to take. I'll wait a few years and see how the new models are holding up before I will buy one. On the other hand, all my buds who own Lexus LS's have nothing but good things to say for the most part. Sad but true...
This is so true. You hit the point right on. I hear so many complaints from people starting with the 96 E class/00 S/02 G/all ML/00 C up until about 2004/05. The W126's were the last super solid real Mercedes. The W124's weren't too bad, but things did start to go down hill. I'm really hoping to see Mercedes turn it around. We need the real deal cars back again. Electronics are the real let down on the new cars out there. I know a lot of people who are holding onto their 80's MB's, even though they could easily afford a new one.
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#24 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 07:38 AM
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"I am on the same page with you on this, as I have owned a couple of the downmarket cousins to the Town Car, the Ford Crown Victoria, basically the same car on the same chassis."

The panther platform is 30 years old - you would hope to f$#@$ that the bugs were worked out by now -

For myself however - I always hated wallowing barges -
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#25 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by asianml View Post
I still don't believe them. My ML has been flawless for almost the three years we've had it.
And my neighbor has been in the shop 5 times this year with an ML 350 - not to mention mine - 11 times and not even two years yet (two years exactly Dec 15)
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#26 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by mr.xpowerseller View Post
This is so true. You hit the point right on. I hear so many complaints from people starting with the 96 E class/00 S/02 G/all ML/00 C up until about 2004/05. The W126's were the last super solid real Mercedes. The W124's weren't too bad, but things did start to go down hill. I'm really hoping to see Mercedes turn it around. We need the real deal cars back again. Electronics are the real let down on the new cars out there. I know a lot of people who are holding onto their 80's MB's, even though they could easily afford a new one.
Not all electronics - most of my visits have been good old fashioned stuff

1) Wiper motor fail
2) washer pump fail
3) body molding falling off
5) smart stock died (twice)

(oh yes & window motor is dieing - I hope it goes before warranty is up)

These are not "high tech" gizmos
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#27 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misfit View Post
"I am on the same page with you on this, as I have owned a couple of the downmarket cousins to the Town Car, the Ford Crown Victoria, basically the same car on the same chassis."

The panther platform is 30 years old - you would hope to f$#@$ that the bugs were worked out by now -

For myself however - I always hated wallowing barges -
Exactly. The cars are VERY dated, ugly, old people boat mobiles that are very reliable because they have been revised soooooo many times.
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#28 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 06:42 PM
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Cascade I'm with ya bud...

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Originally Posted by cascade View Post
I am on the same page with you on this, as I have owned a couple of the downmarket cousins to the Town Car, the Ford Crown Victoria, basically the same car on the same chassis.

I kept them up well, and they were anvil reliable, absolute dirt cheap to run, mile for mile, and delivered plenty of comfort, room, reliability and durability.

Nonetheless I was ridiculed by my wife and all my friends for driving these cars.

I have a 560SEC now, which I like but needs some work on it at 119,000 miles.

Seriously considered getting rid of it in favor of a new or one year old Mercury Grand Marquis with a factory warranty, and almost did it. $18,000 or so will buy quite a lot in this area.

I finally decided to fix up the SEC, as it runs beautifully, and have purchased some W140 wheels, a Euro fire extinguisher and committed to making it a nice, lifetime sort of car.

Incredibly, Ford Motor company for 2008 has discontinued the Crown Vic except to fleet buyers, like Rental companies, Police, Govt and Taxi buyers.

Everyone else would have to buy the Grand Marquis or Lincoln Towncar.

Though probably a TownHouse would make a better investment than an TownCar

Cascade I'm with ya bud, and I totally agree. When I had my Lincoln, I was always surprised with the comments it would garner. I would of course get the name calling: Land Yacht, Space Shuttle, etc.. But then I would get the nice comments from people who appreciated a car with alot of chrome, landau roof, distinctive styling such as the opera window on my Mark VI, and the Continental wheel on the back. Nowadays, you can't buy new cars with this much elegance, personality and styling, unless of course you spend tons of bucks on a Rolls or Bentley. Then there was the transformation that would happen when I would give a friend a ride home: Suddenly, when they relaxed in my Lincolns big, pillowy chairs, stretched out their legs, and felt that soft, plush ride, they would get this smile on their face as if they never knew a car could be this comfortable, and would compliment me on my choice of vehicle. =)

What's really funny is how my friends from Germany and Europe reacted to my car. To them, Benz's are no big thing, or as one of my friends puts it, "we use MB as TAXIS for god's sake, so why should we be impressed?!"...lol. They would always marvel at all the chrome and electronic gadgets my car had, and I would always remind them that like all cars when these electric goodies would go bad, the big difference is that on my Lincoln they were relatively easy and cheap to repair, unlike my Benz. But in the USA, MB will always be a sign of affluence & success, so I can understand why so many americans revere this car, just like I always have. Now as for somebody making the comment about the old Panther platform it is on, my response would be why fix it if it ain't broken? Throughout the 80's, Cadillac kept introducing new models and instead of working out the problems, they just kept creating new ones, while Lincoln kept the Town Car the same and it was pretty much bulletproof. I'm all for change, but not always if it means sacrificing something that is working just fine for something unproven and risky.

By the way Cascade, if you ever want to get into a Lincoln, I would suggest getting anything above 2004, as thats the year the newest styling cues came in that are still their today, and according to JD Powers from '04 up to now are the best years for these newer Town Cars. Not to mention the incredible deals you can get on them now, even on the designer series like Signature, Ultimate and Cartier, and you can even find the Town Car L versions on ebay, the ones that have the extra 6 inches of rear leg room and rear climate controls and other goodies. From a new car buyer standpoint, their depreciation is horrible, but for a used car buyer, if you just wait a year a two, you will avoid that money loss and get a great deal on a solid and classy car.

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#29 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 07:11 PM
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Arrow Music Express switches to Mercedes Benz

'Music' ( born of that industry 35 years ago) Who fleets (300+) the town cars and limos we all see in movies, television, and on the 'red carpet' has begun the change over from linclon to MB. A tradition lost.

There goes Hollywood!
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#30 (permalink) Old 10-18-2007, 07:12 PM
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Post :sigh: another misrepresentation by CR

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Originally Posted by loubapache View Post
Most Mercedes drivers will view the Consumer Reports survey as biased, incomplete, etc. No matter how you look at it, it is a data point.

Here is something to read:
Toyota slips in 'Consumer Reports' reliability study - USATODAY.com

Let the flame war start!

And the last 10 places by make are

.
.
.
Suzuki
GMC
Jeep
Chevrolet
Volkswagen
Pontiac
Mercedes-Benz
Cadillac
Hummer
Land Rover
These CR reliability rankings are misleading to say the very least. If you can even take CR car reviews seriously at all, keep in mind that they use RELATIVE measures of reliability, NOT ABSOLUTE measures. In other words, CR measures reliability compared to a class average. A car that is relatively reliable can still have a huge black circle just because it falls slightly below the average in its ranking.

For example, lets say that there are 10 categories that CR uses to measure overall reliability in its flawed annual survey. Car A has receives a score of "excellent" in each category. Car B receives a score of "excellent" in 9 categories but "very good" in 1 category. In absolute terms, car A and car B both rank high in reliability, but in relative terms, car B scores "below average/poor" in reliability.

Your average simpleton Toyota buyer picks up this rag and sees the half black or full black circle next to some car and thinks the engine will explode as soon as its driven off the lot. This simply isn't the case.... unfortunately CR doesn't try very hard to make this clear to its readers.

I remember a few years ago when I was looking to purchase a BMW X5, I casually looked over the annual CR reliability report just for laughs. I saw the overall reliability rating for the X5 was "poor." I then turned to the detailed reliability rating of the BMW X5 and saw that in every category it had scored at least "average" and mostly "good" or "excellent." In other words, a reliable car made to look unreliable by the hacks at CR who accurately assume that most readers don't read the fine print or investigate the details of their rankings.

CR... what a crock... they should stick to reviewing toasters and dishwashers.

Lol, did you see the latest comparo where they gave the Toyota LS460 a higher ranking than the Merc S550? They bascially admitted that the S500 was better at everything except gas mileage and "user friendliness". Better ride, better comfort, handling, brakes, engine... you name it. Even the fit and finish was deemed better on the S. Yet somehow the Lexus Celsior came out on top? Just goes to show you what kind of people CR cater to...

Give me a fucking break.

Last edited by JapTrapLex; 10-18-2007 at 07:37 PM.
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