The Cost of Delayed Maintenance - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #41 of 51 (permalink) Old 09-01-2007, 12:18 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MWAtl
mcbear, with all due respect, this reminds me of the time I tried to explain some things to a wall. For some reason, I don't think the wall got it.
I know. I know. But I find that in explaining it to bgoin or others that don't understand a concept it also explains it to others.

Or just annoys them.

It could go either way.

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post #42 of 51 (permalink) Old 09-02-2007, 07:59 AM
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Edmunds or KBB numbers for a 500E are not relevant as the pool of cars is just too small to provide an accurate analysis of market value.

A 200K car without issues - any issues - is anywhere from $8-12K depending on region, color and just how "outstanding" is judged at 200,000 miles. As these cars get older, they are getting more rare but also more miles on them. We are seeing sub 100K cars in the $20-30K range in very good condition.

Restored condition cars, where all is done to bring the car to drive/restored are bringing good dollars, even with the miles as the body is solid and there are only a few, easy to address problem areas on the car.

As an example my Bornite car is worth more due to rarity of color than 199 [which had nearly 50% of all 500Es in the US]. On the other hand, folks like the 199 Black Pearl so it is easier to sell.

To answer your question better, the owner should be doing the maintenance as it comes up, because now that it is crunch time, he is in a situation where he SHOULD disclose known problems to any buyer. Oft times, on internet sales as example he is required to do so or the buyer can back out of the sell. He has put himself in a position to either do some of the work or take a hard hit on the sell price of the car.

Frankly, I don't know how I would try and price this car if I were trying to buy/sell it. Someone is going to get screwed on this deal, no matter what decisions are made.
Results of the real world, not the secret private little club of the 500E world.

The below 500E had 15 bids, and just sold for $11,850.00 which is dead on what KBB list for the car.
KBB Excellent - $12,625, Good - $11,675 and Fair - $10,425
Kelley Blue Book - Enter Your ZIP Code

Edmunds has $7,785
Edmunds used Mercedes-Benz 500-Class car appraisal. Used Mercedes-Benz car pricing.

eBay Motors: Mercedes-Benz : 500-Series (item 270160928512 end time Sep-02-07 03:51:56 PDT)
"Here is a very rare 1992 Mercedes 500E. This car has a complete service record history and was maintained meticulously. The previous owner even placed tags in the engine compartment so he knew when each item was serviced last. These cars are getting really hard to find. This car was traded into a New Lexus dealership. It is in really nice condition. Check out the interior. All the seats look near perfect.

This car is fast and fun to drive. Motor runs great and the transmission shifts nicely. Car feels mechanically sound. Alot of car for the money. For a more detailed description please read the "Condition" report listed in the description box below."

And this one in "pristine condition" had no bids, the "Buy Now Price" was $20,000 (way over the market value), note the car only has 94,840 miles.

eBay Motors: Mercedes-Benz : 500-Series (item 230165520381 end time Sep-02-07 05:54:54 PDT)
"You are looking at a 1993 500E Mercedes with 94,800 original miles. I have owned this car for about five years and it is in pristine condition. You are probably aware of just how special these cars are. Mercedes produced and sold about 1500 of these fine cars between 1992 and 1994. Created in a collaboration between Porsche and Mercedes-Benz, and built by hand, this limited production sedan was built in about 16 working days. It is very fast and handles precisely. This is one of the best driving sedans available today. This beautiful white with soft gray interior has always been maintained to the highest standards. The paint and interior trim is virtually flawless. The engine compartment and trunk are both clean as a pin. Everything works as it should and the Michelin pilot sport tires have about 3000 miles on them. This is a one of a kind, great car, that needs nothing. Window sticker and manuals are included. My wife wants an Infinity FX-35 and I will need to sell or trade this car in order to make her happy. Please call me with any questions you may have at 843 450 6512."

Just have not been able to find any 500E selling for "We are seeing sub 100K cars in the $20-30K range in very good condition.", maybe you are talking about a 1992 500E that was sold in 1994!!!

Have a good holiday, go take a nice drive.
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post #43 of 51 (permalink) Old 09-02-2007, 11:23 AM Thread Starter
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Results of the real world, not the secret private little club of the 500E world.

Sorry you don't get it.

Keep your day job.


Clack at Red Mile, after yesterday's drive.

McBear,
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post #44 of 51 (permalink) Old 09-02-2007, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
Sorry you don't get it.

Keep your day job.


Clack at Red Mile, after yesterday's drive.
Example of holding on to a car, 1974 Porsche 914 at Christie's auction sold for $24,200 (Autoweek August 20, 2007). Just keep your 500Es and maybe in the future you can get the price figures you have quoted and have not been able to PROVE or POST any SOLD figures that support your claim.

My 1971 914:
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post #45 of 51 (permalink) Old 09-02-2007, 02:25 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bgoin
Example of holding on to a car, 1974 Porsche 914 at Christie's auction sold for $24,200 (Autoweek August 20, 2007). Just keep your 500Es and maybe in the future you can get the price figures you have quoted and have not been able to PROVE or POST any SOLD figures that support your claim.

My 1971 914:
Nice 914. I raced a 914/6 back in the early 70s on the West coast and really like the way they drive. I dislike the shifting, however they are good little cars.

Good to see you know Porsche and hopefully their marketing. From this we can glean that you know [as examples] that good 72 911 Carreras and most 911S do not go to Auto Trader or eBay to be sold. You know that they are sold either on specialty boards like this one or from newsletters like early911registry or PCA or between private sells of folks who just know who to call when they look for a car [sound familiar?]

I have tried to be nice and I am sorry you don't understand the 500s. You are missing out on a really fun group of folks who enjoy their cars.

If you want proof they sell over $20K, either do you own homework or hang around either here or some of the other fora. The cars are there. If you are looking on eBay or Auto Trader you will find fewer of them as they are the less desirable ones.

I am done with this tangent.

McBear,
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post #46 of 51 (permalink) Old 09-03-2007, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
Nice 914. I raced a 914/6 back in the early 70s on the West coast and really like the way they drive. I dislike the shifting, however they are good little cars.

Good to see you know Porsche and hopefully their marketing. From this we can glean that you know [as examples] that good 72 911 Carreras and most 911S do not go to Auto Trader or eBay to be sold. You know that they are sold either on specialty boards like this one or from newsletters like early911registry or PCA or between private sells of folks who just know who to call when they look for a car [sound familiar?]

I have tried to be nice and I am sorry you don't understand the 500s. You are missing out on a really fun group of folks who enjoy their cars.

If you want proof they sell over $20K, either do you own homework or hang around either here or some of the other fora. The cars are there. If you are looking on eBay or Auto Trader you will find fewer of them as they are the less desirable ones.

I am done with this tangent.
Let me change the subject a little and ask you a question (I am not trying to start an argument). Just what was the reason/logic Mercedes-Benz produced a car with a Porsche engine? To me that would alienate the hard core Benz customer, since that implies that Mercedes could not build an engine of equal capabilities and the fact that many just dislike Porsche (for some illogical reason).
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post #47 of 51 (permalink) Old 09-03-2007, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgoin
Let me change the subject a little and ask you a question (I am not trying to start an argument). Just what was the reason/logic Mercedes-Benz produced a car with a Porsche engine? To me that would alienate the hard core Benz customer, since that implies that Mercedes could not build an engine of equal capabilities and the fact that many just dislike Porsche (for some illogical reason).
Are you saying you are an expert on these cars and saying they have PORSCHE engines in them?

Unbelievable.

I'll let mc bear handle this one.

Jim
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"I swear to god, it's like I live in a trailer of common sense, and stare out the window at a tornado of stupidity." >'='<
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post #48 of 51 (permalink) Old 09-03-2007, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgoin
Let me change the subject a little and ask you a question (I am not trying to start an argument). Just what was the reason/logic Mercedes-Benz produced a car with a Porsche engine? To me that would alienate the hard core Benz customer, since that implies that Mercedes could not build an engine of equal capabilities and the fact that many just dislike Porsche (for some illogical reason).
Mercedes built the parts and shipped them to Porsche for assembly. This car needed a wider transmission tunnel and a slow careful high quality assembly, and the Porsche guys had experience doing just that, and a lot more time on there hands than the cab factorys over at Mercedes.

-Marty


"...pour out of one vessel into another; and as those old Romans robbed all the cities in the world, we skim the cream of other men's wits, pick the choice flowers of their tilled gardens to set our own sterile plots."
-a Richard Burton
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post #49 of 51 (permalink) Old 09-03-2007, 03:46 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bgoin
Let me change the subject a little and ask you a question (I am not trying to start an argument). Just what was the reason/logic Mercedes-Benz produced a car with a Porsche engine? To me that would alienate the hard core Benz customer, since that implies that Mercedes could not build an engine of equal capabilities and the fact that many just dislike Porsche (for some illogical reason).
The motor is a main line Mercedes M119 V8. The motor really has no tweaks from Porsche and the main number of tweaks to the 500E [there are about 1800 in all] are in the chassis and suspension.

The design work was done between Mercedes and Porsche as the work was to be done at the Porsche facility at Rossel-Bau. Its previous project was the Porsche 959 and the next project was the Audi RS2. Porsche was in need of financial assistance during that time frame and they rented out their assembly and technical facilities to their neighbors who had special projects. The MB500E was one of them.

There are NO Porsche parts in the 500E, only Benz parts from either higher line cars such as the SL600 Brakes. There are tons of little changes that most folks would not see unless they have two cars [400E and 500E] completely apart and setting side by side. Inner fenders are strengthened and cupped. The brace for the radiator [which also serves as a cross support] goes from 3/4 inch rolled steel with welded radiator brackets to a 1"X2"tubular steel brace with inset brackets. The 500E weight is increased by a few hundred pounds to account for these changes.

To simplify, the car had Porsche technical assistance in the design of the suspension and chassis upgrades, and in the "process logic" required to put it through assembly. In what has to be the most inefficient logic in the world, each car was moved between Rossel-Bau and the Mercedes facility over 12 times in an 18 day period while the car was being hand built.

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post #50 of 51 (permalink) Old 09-04-2007, 01:47 AM
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I hate when that happens to cars, I know numerous people who see an older model car and think they can afford it because of depreciation. While it is true that they can afford the cost to 'purchase' the car, it doesn't mean they can 'afford' the car. A 'rich man's car' is always going to be a 'rich man's car', within reason of course.

I maintain my car very well, unlike the previous two owners, thankfully I got to my car in time. Regardless, it has still been to the shop twice already, and I have a great mechanic, but the cost of parts is the cost of parts and the cost of labor is the cost of labor. It's not 'out there' but it's definitely not cheap...I'm also a firm believer in preventative maintenance.

If you can't afford to take care of it, you can't afford it. I also like to think that in most cases, if you can't afford it in cash, then you can't afford it period...but that's just me personally.

This whole thing reminds me of a kid getting a pet because it is 'cool' but doesn't actually know how to take care of it and doesn't have the discipline to do so, and thus, it ends up dying. Shame.
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