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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-24-2007, 10:02 AM
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126? I am not very familiar with this model, but is this a car with no ABS, no airbags, no traction control?
No wonder there is not much to fail in it Weren't cruise control, tachometers and transmission slippage constant issue on those models?
Owning personally 124, I would consider that the best deal of 20-Century. Not only had some advanced gizmos, but mine 2.5 liter diesel was developing 35 mpg unless I pushed my right foot on the floor.
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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-24-2007, 10:13 AM
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W126 was the S-Class falling chronologically right before the W140. I agree with you that the W124 is a good car too. I was replying mainly to the "over-engineered" part of his question. I think some people feel that the W140 is also an over-engineered Mercedes, but I do not.

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post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-24-2007, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by pred02
The rust started to see through in 2005, which was the 6th year of the car. At that point the car had 65K miles (now it has 92k). Secondly, the rust appears on all four doors around the trim. It is evident that this is factory mistake, and not rust that just develops because of age. I believe this issue has been documented in the forums.

For the sake of comparison, our VW Passat 03 has 12years/unlimited mileage for the rust warrenty. The 1993 Camry is an 17 year old car with 125K miles and has no rust. Perhaps I am expecting a little bit too much from MB.

This was exactly my thinking before jumping on these forums, and other websites and reading the number of problems people had the W220. One person even mentioned, to qoute, that if he had no warranty, the repairs on the first year would have run him $20,000. Warranty or not, I am sorry, in and out of shop every couple of months is not someone expects of a MSRP $80K+ car.

My grandfather had a MB bought in early 1970s. He had that car for 20 years. Sure he had to replace parts on it, but he did not have it run into a shop every couple of months or so.

Someone perhaps is going to say, well, if unhappy with MB, then just get a Lexus. But we in fact do like MB, just trying to figure out which models are more reliable than others. And of course, I do understand that older cars do require more maintenance.
I don't want to be harsh either but I thought the doors were an issue on the W210, mainly the pre-face-lift, if not driven in dry weather. Are you sure the car has not been in an accident and not fixed properly? Note that I am not familiar with your MB model.

I know a lot of MBs that are rust free at the age of the Camry you referred to, and I know Camrys at the age of your MB that are badly suffering from rust. A few examples don't make a warranty fix automatic. If it really was an issue of your MB model, and the car was maintained and serviced well, then I could think of a dealer fix, that is what they do on the W210 in Europe that suffer from the material problem on doors.

Anyway, you obviously have learned the plus sides of an MB when you say you like it and would want to have one with least problems. In this case I believe you do deserve to get one. I hope you do stay in the family.
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post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-24-2007, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by pred02
The rust started to see through in 2005, which was the 6th year of the car. At that point the car had 65K miles (now it has 92k). Secondly, the rust appears on all four doors around the trim. It is evident that this is factory mistake, and not rust that just develops because of age. I believe this issue has been documented in the forums.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pred02
For the sake of comparison, our VW Passat 03 has 12years/unlimited mileage for the rust warrenty. The 1993 Camry is an 17 year old car with 125K miles and has no rust. Perhaps I am expecting a little bit too much from MB.
Unless you took delivery of a 1999 car in 2000, that was the seventh year of service – 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005. Nonetheless, expectations that exceed what was paid for (the sales contract) many times are met with disappointment. This is how the factory views it – A customer pays a certain amount of money for goods and services. Goods and services (the car and warrantee) were delivered as promised. Now, a customer would like additional services without paying additional fees. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, I’m just explaining how this problem is viewed. The fact that VW, or Toyota, or any other manufacturer builds a car that doesn’t get rusty door trim may be used by someone as they endeavor to convince MB USA that they “should” assist. However, MB USA is only “obligated” to fulfill the contract as signed. The onus is on the customer to convince them otherwise. Personally, I’ve been able to “convince” MB to cover things that I did not pay for. In my estimation, they’re reasonable.

Regarding the VW rust warrantee, the warrantee says “rust perforation”. This is later defined as coverage for “body panels” that have “rusted through”. This policy only covers complete perforation, which is standard in the industry. Basically, you have to have a through and through hole, which rarely occurs with today's rust-proofing. VW can deny claims for sheet metal that's only partially rusted. Also, they have another out - rust caused by rock chips, hail or acid rain. Basically, if your C was built by VW, they could deny the claim as well. Ditto for Toyota. Every rust contract by every manufacturer that I've seen says “rust through”.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pred02
My grandfather had a MB bought in early 1970s. He had that car for 20 years. Sure he had to replace parts on it, but he did not have it run into a shop every couple of months or so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pred02
Someone perhaps is going to say, well, if unhappy with MB, then just get a Lexus. But we in fact do like MB, just trying to figure out which models are more reliable than others. And of course, I do understand that older cars do require more maintenance.
I don’t think comparisons between new and old matter. To me, there’s only what you can get right now, in the condition available right now. I can’t speak for every other MB out there. All I can say is very little on my car has actually “broken” that MB USA has not fixed for free. Right now, I’m satisfied with my car. I hope you will be with whatever you purchase. If it were me, a 2 year old W211 with another 5 years of factory coverage would be nice. Of course, so would a new E550.
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post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-24-2007, 12:34 PM
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"The last V12 Mercedes built before this was in Messerschmidt".
Very funny.
I was on the market for W140, but didn't see much sense to burn lot of diluted CA gasoline with 65 mph speed limits here. So the diesel option had 140 HP 3.5 liter, what not only wasn't much for 2.2 tons car, but had bad opinions as well. I ended up with 174 HP E300D on W210, that is performance car making 35 mpg.
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post #16 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-24-2007, 01:13 PM
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Back to original topic (of over engineering)...dual pane windows, pop up antenna when you back up (pre 95 models), vacuum door, massage chairs, the list goes on and on.
I was about to ask the OP "what does he mean with over-engineered". I figured out he would mean engineering with higher than necessary reliability dimensioning or something like that. Not so much feature-wise.

In any case, even if a W140 had best features of its time, any successor car would always have more features.

The most specific to me about the W140 is the size. I don't remember seeing real figures but it sure does look big, bigger than the current W221 which is bigger than the W220.
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post #17 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-24-2007, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by tirona
if you can afford it get a w220 2003+, of course they are better then the older s-classes. why would you wanna buy a 20 year old car when you can afford a new modern model? an older car will always require more maintanance than a newer one.
I agree, get a good 2003+ W220 and might wanna invest in extended warranty. I would stay away from the W140. They are really nice cars to drive, but are (at least mine) very unreliable. I personally like the look of the W140 that's why I'm keeping mine.... for now. Things that typically go wrong, and they will, are the wiring harness, the evaporator, and headgaskets. These cost a lot of money for labour and parts. Not to mention all the costly maintanence with an older car. Things like the timing chain.On the W140 this maintanence costs twice as much as any other car.
Another thing, consider a BMW 745iL. They are big and reliable. That's if you're not a die-hard Benz fanatic.
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post #18 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-24-2007, 01:34 PM
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Last of the over engineered and cost no object cars would be the last years of the W126 (the 1991 560SEL) and the W124 (1995 E320)

Either of those would be a good bet, considering your parameters.

They would need to be examples in good condition, with the typical problem areas checked out espeically

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post #19 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-24-2007, 01:36 PM
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I liked that YouTube piece, thanks much! I didn't understand about the antennae raising in reverse though, what does that accomplish?

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post #20 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-24-2007, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by cascade
Last of the over engineered and cost no object cars would be the last years of the W126 (the 1991 560SEL) and the W124 (1995 E320)

Either of those would be a good bet, considering your parameters.

They would need to be examples in good condition, with the typical problem areas checked out espeically
Last of the over engineered and cost no object cars would be the last years of the W126 (the 1991 560SEL) and the W124 (1994 E500) Fixed it for you.

And Cascade is correct, those are the top engineer built cars. Afterwards, Accountants had more to do with the spec than the engineers.

As for the W140. Great car, well engineered but expensive to keep running.

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