MB is rear wheel drive!!!!! - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #41 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-09-2007, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by benz rider
all my muscle car buddies treated euro cars like tinker toys aka JUNK....lol...but I've been able to convince a few that benz is a solid vehicle, IF you take the time to get to know them.....

newbie benz rider.

What do your muscle car buddies think a muscle car is?

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post #42 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-09-2007, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Kajtek1
So following the change in topic. From what I noticed, limited slip differentials seized to exist in computer era, when it is much easier to write a program, that is using ABS system to apply brake on spinning wheel.
I've never seen strictly technical description,but generally 4WD has no central differential and can't be used on dry pavement, while AWD is for street vehicles.
Actually no. Limited slip differentials are still in use today. In fact Subaru uses a limited slip rear differential in most of its AWD 2008 line up along with ESP (electronic stability control). In fact if you buy a manual Subaru Impreza WRX STI you get no less than three limited slip differentials, a helical-type limited-slip front differential and a Torsen limited-slip rear differential and finally one for the middle to manage power between each end.
Audi use a Torsen limited slip differential in the middle of most of their cars, the left/right traction is usually controlled by electronics however but there are examples in which they have also put a limited slip in the rear.
FWD cars like the 2007 Honda Civic SI use a limited slip diff up front along with traction control and ESP.
Acura's SH-AWD is an advanced electronically controlled limited slip differential. It uses electromagnetic clutches to shift power left to right in the rear AND front to back all in one single diff unit that sits in the rear of the car.

Using computers to control clutch packs like Acura does here and Subaru does with the center diff in their automatics is about as close as you can get to eliminating the need for none electronic limited slip diffs. But its expensive and until it gets cheaper manufacturers will just use the none electronic ones especially between the axles and let the electronics handle traction control and stability instead.

The difference between 4WD and AWD is exactly as someone pointed out, you can lock 4WD into 2WD mode. AWD's do not normally have this option, however Subaru's AWD automatic transmission can be made into 2wd for emergency situations by inserting a fuse in the engine bay (its in the owners manual in the change tire section). This is not written in stone however, there is a blurring of the definitions. Like I explained with the Subaru you can have an AWD that behaves like a 4WD and you can have a 4WD that behaves like an AWD. Also manufactures like Honda will sell both types in their model line ups.

Hope this helps...
Oh and here's another little trivia, high end manufacturers still use single stage paint too Lexus uses it on their Obsidian Black paint on their cars including the LS. So limited slip diffs and Single stage paint, both old technologies, are being used today thanks to stronger modern materials and chemicals being used to make them.
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post #43 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-09-2007, 07:52 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by NZ Benz
You do know that just about anycar will shift it's weight to the back when taking off much in the same way that it throws you back in your seat when you hit the gas, it's physics.
of course. I was just almost certain to hear the front wheels spin on the benz, but they never did so I never paid it any mind until I was caught in a rainstorm and juiced it to make a short turn and the tail end spun....lol...it was exciting to realize it. I never thought MB would even care to put a RWD on a small benz. it actually helps the value.
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post #44 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-09-2007, 07:56 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Yacht Master
What do your muscle car buddies think a muscle car is?

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I've read on the E55....very fast. muscle car...lol
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post #45 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-09-2007, 08:36 AM
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Kaj, you started all of this!

I'm not convinced on the AWD vs 4wd. Aren't they two totally different configurations, whether you have the option to switch to 2WD or not, and whether you can lock the differential or not? AWD uses a transaxle and have a standard differential in the rear. 4WD routes power to a center transfer case and then to separate forward and rear differentials. Isn't this correct? I'm pretty sure the MLs 4WD and not AWD (atleast, as I understand the terms). 4WD has advantages over AWD on poor friction surfaces. It balances the weight better during wheel slippage.

I love it when nerds talk dirty...

Last edited by Bogie; 07-09-2007 at 08:38 AM.
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post #46 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-09-2007, 09:02 AM
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Even our Smart is rear wheel - the B though is front ......
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post #47 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-09-2007, 09:19 AM
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I have to admit I'm used to a broader interpretation and have considered AWD and 4WD the same, on a 4 wheel car all wheels drive. But wiki seems to follow points by Kajtek and Yal.
Four-wheel drive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I doubt this is the only definition but interpret this as the main things being: manual activation on the 4WD (when not engaded, it operates as a 2WD) and no centre differential. AWD would not have the option to disengage one of the axles, making the car a 2WD. The AWD may have a centre differential lock, which makes it a 4WD when the centre differential is locked. Confusing to me at least if an AWD can become a 4WD, depending if the centre differential is locked or not.

In practise differential locks can exist on all of the three differentials in very different forms, where the ABS based one is basically only SW on a car that already has ABS brakes.

I hope I will still be accepted using 4WD for any car that isn't two wheel driven. Or should I just talk about 4-matic, I'm not too interested about other forms anyway :-)
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post #48 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-09-2007, 09:46 AM
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A 4WD system has a transfer case. With it, you select either 2WD, 4WD Hi (for street driving) or 4WD Lo (for crawling off road). An AWD system uses a center differential to transfer power front and rear and is not typically selectable.

But in any event, a transfer case or a center diff just distributes power to the front and rear axles. From there, your differentials do the work. With standard open diffs, you effectively have just one wheel up front and one wheel in back providing drive. To have true 4WD, you need locking differentials. When locked, the diffs put drive to all 4 tires equally, so even if you have a wheel in the air, the other will turn. With limited slip diffs, you get a similar power distribution, but they will "slip" enough to allow you to turn. Locked differentials will only allow you to go straight ahead! So, in a true off road vehicle, you can have either air or cable actuated locking differentials, allowing you to lock and unlock the diffs as the terrain requires.

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post #49 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-14-2007, 08:40 AM
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Let's just call the ML A4WD.
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post #50 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-15-2007, 12:49 PM
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