What quality in Mercedes has been cut? - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-01-2007, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Rhansantiago
I still wonder how much would a Benz cost today if they still continued to build in terms of W124 standards.
That's a good question Rhansantiago, and I'd like to know the answer to that too. I think someone would have to adjust the prices of parts and labor for inflation, and then factor out the cost saving measures. Just a wild guess: I'd say that someone would have to multiply the current price by at least 150%.

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-01-2007, 09:58 PM
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Marcus an inline 6 is a better design. An inline 6 is a naturally balanced motor. An inline is used for extremely low vibration. An inline of course is the mainstay of BMW who choose not to cost cut there. A v6 needs to be balanced as best as it can be. As far as Mercedes saying a 112 costs less to produce that is WHY they did it. It may be better on fuel but so would a newer inline6. BMW's inline's have gotten of couse better on fuel than 20 year old designs.
Fair enough. I didn’t word it as clearly as I should have. Allow me to restate it slightly differently. That inline six isn’t a better engine than that V-six. In fact, it’s just the opposite. That M112 V-six was a dramatic improvement over that M104 inline six. These are the numbers Mercedes Benz claimed in their press kit – the new M112 is 40 percent cleaner burning, weighs 25 percent less, and is 13 percent more fuel efficient than the M104 it replaced. The M112 won the Ward’s 10 Best Engine Award in 1998, 1999, 2000, and 2001. The M104 was a fine engine, as most inline sixes are, however they also blow head gaskets and have packaging problems that V6’s don’t. I personally believe a better V-six design would be a 60 degree, but MB decided against it – and probably for cost reasons. A newly designed inline six would have had some benefits, but we’ll never know to what extent as Mercedes-Benz decided against it.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-02-2007, 03:52 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MarcusF
Fair enough. I didn’t word it as clearly as I should have. Allow me to restate it slightly differently. That inline six isn’t a better engine than that V-six. In fact, it’s just the opposite. That M112 V-six was a dramatic improvement over that M104 inline six. These are the numbers Mercedes Benz claimed in their press kit – the new M112 is 40 percent cleaner burning, weighs 25 percent less, and is 13 percent more fuel efficient than the M104 it replaced. The M112 won the Ward’s 10 Best Engine Award in 1998, 1999, 2000, and 2001. The M104 was a fine engine, as most inline sixes are, however they also blow head gaskets and have packaging problems that V6’s don’t. I personally believe a better V-six design would be a 60 degree, but MB decided against it – and probably for cost reasons. A newly designed inline six would have had some benefits, but we’ll never know to what extent as Mercedes-Benz decided against it.
Marcus I do not disagree with Mercedes press release on being cleaner weighing less and better on fuel. Mercedes did not say anything in the press vibration a inline6 asset. But the long and short of Mercedes going to a v6 was to save $$$. They could share parts with the v8. BMW choose not to go that cost cutting route. To BMW I think their inline6 means sooo much to the company. BMW would have suffered more than Merc did. You did say Mercedes 112 was a top 10 motor but the benchmark happens to still be BMW's inline 6. I own a 103 and it went 21 years without being touched at all. That is not to say a v6 can not do the same. I was refering to Mercedes giving up the ultra low vibration from the naturally balanced inline 6 in favour of something less than perfect design. That lets you into Mercedes mindset of let's build it cheaper and they will not know the difference. Will tell the public the new motor is better on fuel better for the enviroment and lighter and the public will forget why we built a inline 6 in the 1st place.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-02-2007, 04:17 PM
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I've been impressed with my cars in how rebuildable and refinishable the parts are. They were built to last. I can't say the same about co-workers' 2002-2004 SL500 and S500's. But I think a signifgicant factor here is simply weight.

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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-02-2007, 05:23 PM Thread Starter
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I've been impressed with my cars in how rebuildable and refinishable the parts are. They were built to last. I can't say the same about co-workers' 2002-2004 SL500 and S500's. But I think a signifgicant factor here is simply weight.

You said it strife2. You can see the look of the older Benz's right up until the end of the 140. Tank like solidness. I remember at one time thinking about trading my 124 on a 210. Now I look at the 210's that are older then 10yrs and they look tired. When I bought the car it was 12 years old. It is now 21 years old and has been painted and rims done and looks better than when it was 10 years old. My respect (and love) of the car has grown the older it gets. I am now thinking about 40 years out of the car. I have never owned a car that I could put money into when it got old and think it was money well spent. This car changes my whole mentality about cars life span. I have never owned a car when I was not jealous of the newer model. I used to go to the dealer and lust over other new ones when they had 107's 126's (newer) 124's 140's and 129's. I just do not lust over the new ones? I spin in and out of the dealer without a jealous bone. I remember going to my parts guy in Milton Ont. He is a german guy and I would always ask him about all German cars BMW Porsche etc. He would say there alright (meaning BMW) but you do not understand, he would say to me I am in love with Mercedes. He then walked to the back and brought out some relay and said this is a BMW relay this is a Mercedes relay! You could see the huge quality difference! He said that is why I love Mercedes they are built right. He also was the 1st to inform me all was not well when the 210 came out. I thought it was better looking car he said the parts quality was going downhill huge!
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