Is Mercedes really the worst? - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 55 (permalink) Old 03-01-2007, 09:48 AM
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I do not think it is fair to blindly criticize CR. The W124 (94 and 95) were CR recommended cars at the time. Since then MBs have disappeared from CR's recommended lists.

Reliability and durability are two different things. A Mercedes E-Class that can go 300,000 miles may not be reliable. It mght have had 5 MAF, two new spring perches, 3 new transmissions, 10 rear window regulators. BTW, MB has better warranty in Europe than in the US. Your MBs are overed for 30 years for rust. Here it is only 4 or 5.

People have put in so much into MBs so they keep fixing them and that is why they are "durable".

People did not have much into Toyotas so when they break, they get a new one. That is why they are "not" durable.

The same goes with any aircraft. They are so expensive so they are always been fixed. Nowthwest airline has so many DC-9's (terrible airplanes) but they are so "durable".

Last edited by loubapache; 03-01-2007 at 09:51 AM.
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post #12 of 55 (permalink) Old 03-01-2007, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
I'm guessing that perspective plays a part in these surveys. I mean, expectations wax and wane with price, right?
I agree with you completely here GermanStar. In other words, we should get what we are paying for or put another way, we should not get what we are not paying for either!

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post #13 of 55 (permalink) Old 03-01-2007, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by loubapache
I do not think it is fair to blindly criticize CR. The W124 (94 and 95) were CR recommended cars at the time. Since then MBs have disappeared from CR's recommended lists.
I didn't know that W124 was a CR Recommendation back then, so thank you. As an aside, my sister bought one of the CR recommended washer and dryer sets (I don't remember the brand) that turned out to be crap.

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post #14 of 55 (permalink) Old 03-01-2007, 10:36 AM
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Consumers reports rates on the amount of unscheduled stops at the dealership.

Mercedes has created this "baby" on their own engineering accord. To a high degree, the cars, via message center, tell consumers way too much information which most people don't understand. If you don't understand, or a simple message creates a panic, your next stop is the dealership.

Just as an example, an 06 164, had a customer freaking out, message in cluster in white was "headlights in/op". The problem: the cornering headlights, one was off by a degree or two, very simple.

This is something that would not have affected the driver at all and could have been corrected during regular maintenance. But now will reside in consumers reports files as an unscheduled stop.
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post #15 of 55 (permalink) Old 03-01-2007, 11:15 AM
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My main problem with Consumer Reports' road test ratings is that they never provide the formula used to calculate scores. I asked one of their road test engineers why. His only response: "it's policy."

Without knowing this formula, their ratings aren't all that useful, as it's not possible to tell how closely their priorities match your own.

But even so I have far fewer issues with their ratings than their reliability info.

Note that Consumer Reports' annual auto issue includes reliability ratings for the year ending March 31, 2006. The data on which their reliability verdicts are based is nearly a year old.

Because our surveys at TrueDelta.com are more frequent, and we analyze the data promptly, our results will average over ten months' "fresher" than theirs. I've already posted results for the year ending December 31, 2006.

When considering a car, do you want to know how reliable it was a year ago, when it was a year younger, or how reliable it has been recently?

Latest results:

Vehicle Reliability Research

No results for any Mercedes models yet, as too few owners are helping out. Maybe with the next update, in May.

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post #16 of 55 (permalink) Old 03-01-2007, 11:42 AM
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About the same time the CR report came out bashing MB, another report--I think it was JD Powers--came out w/ a report that had MB as #1. I don't have time to track them down, but there is another thread around here which does...

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post #17 of 55 (permalink) Old 03-01-2007, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk
About the same time the CR report came out bashing MB, another report--I think it was JD Powers--came out w/ a report that had MB as #1. I don't have time to track them down, but there is another thread around here which does...
I remember that one. I think the JD Powers was on Initial Customer Satisfaction. The CR is more longterm care and feeding. CR is more trend analysis.

I used to not be a fan of CR because they did not cover handling and performance issues then I finally realized that was not what they were after. After I saw a bunch of their research on other consumer products from the inside [some IBM internal marketing] I gained a completely new respect for what their numbers meant. These guys are hardcore determined to insure that their data is stone cold accurate, not tweaked for any manufacturer or predetermined conclusion.

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post #18 of 55 (permalink) Old 03-01-2007, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
I remember that one. I think the JD Powers was on Initial Customer Satisfaction. The CR is more longterm care and feeding. CR is more trend analysis.

I used to not be a fan of CR because they did not cover handling and performance issues then I finally realized that was not what they were after. After I saw a bunch of their research on other consumer products from the inside [some IBM internal marketing] I gained a completely new respect for what their numbers meant. These guys are hardcore determined to insure that their data is stone cold accurate, not tweaked for any manufacturer or predetermined conclusion.
That may be, but I have almost always found myself at polar opposites w/ their ranking of everything from Air conditioners to Ziplock bags--based on my own long term experience w/ the items. It almost never fails that I usually prefer the stuff they rank as worst and hate the stuff they rank as "best." In fact, I have used their rankings several times in the past to select the best of the best--I just look for what they say is the worst of the worst. And it has almost always worked!

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post #19 of 55 (permalink) Old 03-01-2007, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk
That may be, but I have almost always found myself at polar opposites w/ their ranking of everything from Air conditioners to Ziplock bags--based on my own long term experience w/ the items. It almost never fails that I usually prefer the stuff they rank as worst and hate the stuff they rank as "best." In fact, I have used their rankings several times in the past to select the best of the best--I just look for what they say is the worst of the worst. And it has almost always worked!
As long as you have a system that works. I have questioned their judgement in having their headquarters in Yonkers.

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post #20 of 55 (permalink) Old 03-01-2007, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by loubapache
Not surprised at all from the survey results. MB really took a turn to the south starting in the mid 90's.

When head gaskets, MAF, Cat converters, transmissions replacements, spring perches, etc. are regular maintainance items, the band is in deep trouble.

Having problems is one thing. Not standing behind and helping the consumers is another (worse) thing. If you ask MBUSA, none of the problems I mentioned earlier are "known" to them. You have to "beg" before they will admit it is a problem.

They often do selected market recalls, goodwill repair only to certain customers (those from whom MBUSA made a lot of repair $$), etc. This just drives the loyal customers away to the Japanese brands.

I agree with you. MB with their typical German arrogance will never stand behind their products and admit they are in some deep $hit with the quality problems. Compare that to Honda, back in 00 Accords with V6 had transmission problems, and immediately Honda gave 10yr/100k warranties on all affected cars. What has MB done on the rusting spring perches?? NOTHING!! And my friend has a honda prelude, 7 yrs old and 86k miles and the transmission was failing. Guess what, when he took the car to a honda dealership, they replaced his tranny FOR FREE out of good faith and back up the Honda name. Something unimaginable at a MB dealer.

And if anyone here thinks Hondas & Toyotas cannot last 200-250k miles, you are dead wrong. Many of them can hit these miles with 10 times less maintenance than MBs.

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