What are the advantages of diesel? - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-23-2007, 09:47 AM
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Actually I found the noise and vibration on the 300D quite annoying.
The engine at 229,000 miles probably had it better days, but I am still working to improve it.
For real smoke and noise I can always fire up my 2-cycle Detroit diesel. Boy! I am glad it is pusher and I seat 40 ' up front.

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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-20-2007, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggs
Can someone explain what the difference is between gasoline and diesel? I'm lost. Is diesel cheaper than gas? Does diesel have better MPG?

I asked a friend if he knew anything about diesel, and he said he does not even know if it's easy to buy. Is diesel like leaded fuel? Are there disadvantages to diesel? Can any mechanic work on a diesel engine, or do the cars need to be serviced in expensive shops?

Do diesel powered Mercedes last longer than gasoline powered Mercedes? What is the average lifespan of a diesel powered Mercedes? 200,000 miles? 300,000 miles? more?

I want to buy a used Mercedes that will last a long time, and people recommended a diesel. I'd like to learn a little more about them before I buy one.
Diesel Advantages:
1. About 30% better fuel mileage since diesel fuel contains more BTU's per gallon.
2. Simplicity of the ignition sytem since there are no spark plugs, spark plug wires, distributor or ignition coil.
3. Better engine life since the fuel is a lubricant unlike gasoline which is a solvent that can wash the oil from the cylinder walls.
4. Better fuel economy in stop, idle, and go traffic as diesels do not have to maintain the stociometric 13.8 ratio of air to fuel that gasoline engines do. In other words at low loads, diesels run very lean compared to gas engines.
5. Torque is best at low RPM's
6. Diesels love to be run for long periods of time
7. A "tune-up" is a change of the filters and crankcase oil.

Diesel Drawbacks:
1. Dirty Fuel can plug fuel filters fast..Never had this problem.
2. Hard to start in extremely cold weather....Never had this problem.
3. Filters MUST be changed regularly. The injection pump and injectors are expensive.
4. Crankcase oil becomes black rapidly from soot on cylinder walls.
5. Cold weather can cause fuel to gel, though modern fuel being sold is mixed with kerosine as the winter blend to absorb moisture and decrease low temp viscosity..Never had this problem.
6. Oil companies have priced Diesel fuel higher than premium in the Northeast since it has more BTU's. It used to be less expensive since it required less refining.
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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-20-2007, 12:57 PM
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I think diesel fuel used to cost much less to refine. With the recent advent of the ultra-low-sulfur governmental requirements, it has become more expensive to produce. I don't know if that completely justifies it costing more than premium though!

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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-20-2007, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Musikmann
I think diesel fuel used to cost much less to refine. With the recent advent of the ultra-low-sulfur governmental requirements, it has become more expensive to produce. I don't know if that completely justifies it costing more than premium though!
Well, with a diesel, youg et better economy, thus you sort of save money by having to fill up less.
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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-20-2007, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by chinny4290
Well, with a diesel, you get better economy, thus you sort of save money by having to fill up less.
I agree with you chinny4290. Even if diesel costs a little more than premium, I think because diesel autos get more miles/gallon, they cost less to operate in the long run.

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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-20-2007, 08:19 PM
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I travel to europe several times a year and i cant help but notice the high tech turbo diesels that are on the market . They are powerful and fuel efficient , I had the opportunity to drive a c270 cdi and all i can say after driving it ,who needs a petrol car......now that we have euro or bio diesel as they call it....i wonder if we are going to be seeing more diesel models...i mean if 50% of american cars were disels that got 40+mpg that would significantly reduce our addiction for oil.....but i get the feeling that the government doesnt want us to follow what the europeans are doing ...they want us to buy costly and complicated hybrids

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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-20-2007, 08:32 PM
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Noisy and smokey pertains to the older diesels. Modern diesels (over the past 2 - 3 years) have a "common rail" injection system that operates at something like 23,000 psi. This means that the injectors serve only to precisely meter the fuel into each cylinder. In modern diesel engines, an injector will squirt fuel into the cylinder 2 or 3 time during the firing stroke. This gives a cleaner burn, less noise, less smoke and better economy. If you stand next to a 2007 MB E-320 while it is running, you'll think it is a gasoline engine because it is so quiet. By it's very design, diesels are more robust engines. People talk about horsepower as if it is something you can feel but in reality, what you feel is torque. A diesel will develop it's maximum torque just above a fast idle and it has a pretty flat torque line as RPM's increase. A gasoline engine has to run up 4,000 to 6,000 RPM to get an equivalent torque. A gasoline engine may outrun a diesel but just listen to the engine scream in order to get the torque. On a given trip, a diesel engine will turn over far fewer times than will a gasoline engine thus another reason it will outlive a gasoline engine.
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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-20-2007, 08:35 PM
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Good point armanchosbenz,

I think the point is that the American oil companies have an undue influence on our government, and it's policies. And I don't think they are the only "special interest group" who does. But for the purposes of this discussion, the Rockefellers started the trend, and I think it continues today, but with some additional players.

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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-20-2007, 08:55 PM
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Some incorrect and correct numbers on diesels. I had a 2002 Jetta TDI and it got 50mpg in the city and was rated for 50mpg! That is U.K. gallon. (20% larger then U.S. gallon) The difference on this board was quoted as 25 and 30% better mileage. It is wayyyyy more than that! The real world mileage is close to 100% better in town mileage and 50%+ on the highway. Diesels are way more effiecient in town. They use almost no fuel on idle. So if you get one look for fantastic mileage. that being said I got rid of mine Jetta TDI to much vibration for me. I HATE that! My inline 6 in the benz is wayyyyy smother and sucks way more gas. Also in Canada the diesel takes forever to warm-up. It burns so little fuel it can't warm-up. My Benz is up to temp in 3 or 4 blocks! The TDI literally 30km's (20 miles) STILL not enough heat to warm up the car. A diesel Jetta was NOT fun either. Sounds like marbels not soulful like inline 6. But like one other guy said I would like a diesel benz if they did not cost more used. Less new and more used go figure! My Benz dealer told me the 103 engine I have or the 119 is more relieable than even the diesel and diesels don't do well in short travel like I do.
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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-20-2007, 09:00 PM
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Sorry to confuse part of the reason the benz warms up so fast is very good insulation around the motor on the firewall and on the hood and a belly pan. My Jetta being a MUCH cheaper built car does not have the insulation. Maybe a diesel benz warms up faster than a Volkswagen.
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