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post #31 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-22-2007, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by johnamoss
Ok Chinny, you've gone too far! I sold new Prius for a year and a half. They don't have hefty materials...other than that, they are not what you say they are. They're not slow: some people drive them that way to eek out the highest use of the elecric motor before the gas engine kicks in. They are very well put together with quality materials and need very modest maintenance. I drive a mercedes because I feel safer and enjoy the driving experience. My maintenance costs would be a fraction if I drove a Prius.
Usually, Toyotas are pretty good cars, but the Prius? As a Toyota salesperson, you probably know a little more than the average Joe. I’ve driven a Prius and I thought it was slow, but "slow" is a relative term. However, you say they’re “very well put together”. You’re stating this despite the fact that they have TWO safety recalls? NHTSA id number 06V188000 is for the “steering problem”. Basically the yokes on the steering shaft are junk. When the driver can’t steer, isn’t the car’s propensity for running into things is a bit higher than most? That leads right into safety recall number two. NHTSA id number 06V096000 for the airbag failure. No doubt first discovered by the same people who were affected by recall number 1.

Now I’m not taking sides. In all fairness, the car could be “well put together”, but it’s hard for me to agree with the bit about “quality materials” if National Highway Safety Traffic Administration claims that over 170,000 of these vehicles have “less than useful” steering mechanisms. Any comment about the recalls?

Any comment on the economics of the regular Camry LE versus the Hybrid? Would you recommend the Prius over the Camry? If so, why?
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post #32 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-22-2007, 06:50 PM
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Whoa whoa whoa now. I'm not against all Toyotas. I just think Priuses are pure crap. If I wanted to save the planet, save money, and still have something that's fun and enjoyable to drive while made well I'd get a diesel.

And they just make so much more sense. Think about it.

The Prius is made of plastics that you'd find from the $.99 store on the corner of Harlem. Not only that, battery packs on hybrids in general don't last nearly as long as a diesel or a petrol engine would and it has so many electrical parts, there's so much that can go wrong. I think it's ugly, I think it's slow, and Toyota's optimistic 60MPG and 0-60 in 10 seconds claims make Hurricane Katrina look like it was no worse than a F2 Tornado. A Golf Diesel has a lot better fuel economy than the Prius.

I don't think there's anything good about the car.

And that doesn't mean I'm dissing any other TOyotas. I'd buy any toyota, EXCEPT the Prius. I'd rather get a Corolla diesel if there is such thing.

The only condition where I'd get a hybrid is if I was living in the city and sitting in nothing more than traffic. That's when a hybrid makes sense, and I'd get a Lexus because the Prius is just shame.

All I see a Prius as is something to keep the public's awareness and hype of global warming down as well as keeping greenpeace happy and making them feel like they're making a difference. That's all.

Last edited by chinny4290; 01-22-2007 at 06:53 PM.
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post #33 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-22-2007, 10:24 PM
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I'd rather have a recall where all the cars are inspected & repaired than to have a number of rusting front spring perches (W210) that have not been recalled.

Yeah, I'd rather have a Camry LE over a Prius: roomier, more comfortable vehicle for about 3k less similiarly equipped.

The Prius owners I talked with usually got mid to upper 40's mpg-wise, 52-56 if taking it real easy. They can be coaxed to 60. That said, the EPA testing will soon be going through more revisions to try and make them more realistic. The cars were ok, but not unlike a Corolla, I just didn't feel there was enough heft to make me feel safe in a 30mph+ accident.

The Camry hybrid...now that's nice! Hard to justify the additional cost over just a few years of ownership but you probably could over 10+ years. Toyota has done a good job of making sure the hybrids are very trouble-free, realizing consumers would not even consider buying vehicles with such technology if that were not so. I hate to say it, but I feel very sure a Toyota hybrid would be more reliable for the 1st 100k miles than a Mercedes as well as costing much less to maintain, but lacking personality and any sense of driving fun. Simple: If you're a "car person" get a Mercedes. Otherwise, you'd enjoy a Toyota more.

'87 300E: sold after 11years @ 230k & still on the road somewhere in rural Tennessee.

'94 C220 with 93k totalled 10/06 by hit & run broadsiding monster truck: not a scratch or bruise for me
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post #34 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-23-2007, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnamoss
Ok Chinny, you've gone too far! I sold new Prius for a year and a half. They don't have hefty materials...other than that, they are not what you say they are. They're not slow: some people drive them that way to eek out the highest use of the elecric motor before the gas engine kicks in. They are very well put together with quality materials and need very modest maintenance. I drive a mercedes because I feel safer and enjoy the driving experience. My maintenance costs would be a fraction if I drove a Prius.

Come talk to us about a Prius after 150,000 miles. I'd like to know if the electronics are still functioning properly, how many battery packs the car has been through, how much it cost to dispose of the old pack, and what the environmental impact of disposing of a giant battery turns out to be.

Hybrids make little to no economic OR environmental sense. My 24-year-old and 15-year-old cars have a much smaller impact on Mother Earth than someone who runs out and buys a new hybrid every 2-3 years to be "green." Any additional tailpipe emissions that I'm putting out is trumped by pollution generated by a manufacturing facility for new, disposable cars.

Matt in Atlanta

1983 300CD
Black-on-black daily driver
299K and laid up right now

Former:
1992 400E, smoke silver-on-mushroom, sold at 168K
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post #35 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-23-2007, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnamoss
I'd rather have a recall where all the cars are inspected & repaired than to have a number of rusting front spring perches (W210) that have not been recalled.

Yeah, I'd rather have a Camry LE over a Prius: roomier, more comfortable vehicle for about 3k less similiarly equipped.

The Prius owners I talked with usually got mid to upper 40's mpg-wise, 52-56 if taking it real easy. They can be coaxed to 60. That said, the EPA testing will soon be going through more revisions to try and make them more realistic. The cars were ok, but not unlike a Corolla, I just didn't feel there was enough heft to make me feel safe in a 30mph+ accident.

The Camry hybrid...now that's nice! Hard to justify the additional cost over just a few years of ownership but you probably could over 10+ years. Toyota has done a good job of making sure the hybrids are very trouble-free, realizing consumers would not even consider buying vehicles with such technology if that were not so. I hate to say it, but I feel very sure a Toyota hybrid would be more reliable for the 1st 100k miles than a Mercedes as well as costing much less to maintain, but lacking personality and any sense of driving fun. Simple: If you're a "car person" get a Mercedes. Otherwise, you'd enjoy a Toyota more.
Coaxed to 60 MPG? In a Hybrid? Since the electric motors don't run on the highway, that would have to be 60 MPG in the city. I don't think it could sustain that mileage for 3 consecutive miles. David Kiley wrote an article for USA Today where he took a Prius Hybrid on a 549 mile test drive from Washington DC to Detroit and only got 38 MPG. Here’s the kicker – the Hybrid’s trip computer said he was getting 51 MPG. If Hybrid customers are going by a trip computer that’s off by 35%, it’s easy to see how they "THINK" they’re getting 60 MPG, when they're really in the mid-40's.

Here’s the article.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-06-10-diesel-vs-hybrid_x.htm
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post #36 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-23-2007, 02:34 PM
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Hey, I'm just telling you what my customers and friends told me. I personally would never rely solely on a trip computer for mpg's & rely on the hard data of miles driven vs gallons to fill. Remember, hybrids do get better mpg in city stop-n-go driving.

'87 300E: sold after 11years @ 230k & still on the road somewhere in rural Tennessee.

'94 C220 with 93k totalled 10/06 by hit & run broadsiding monster truck: not a scratch or bruise for me
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post #37 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-23-2007, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnamoss
Hey, I'm just telling you what my customers and friends told me. I personally would never rely solely on a trip computer for mpg's & rely on the hard data of miles driven vs gallons to fill. Remember, hybrids do get better mpg in city stop-n-go driving.
Yes, but the OP needs a car for commuting 100 miles daily if I remember correctly.
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post #38 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-23-2007, 03:11 PM
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just my US 0.02 .... a Benz will be able to get 100,000 miles on top of the current miles pretty easily. Regular maintenance is paramount and the more simple the better. I bought my 4 banger 190E in 2003 with 95,000 miles on the meter, since then I've covered more than 65,000 miles with the same car in 40 months.... average commute is at least 400 miles a week in various traffic circumstances. I'd choose a pre 1996 Mercedes-Benz and indeed, spend some US 5,000 on the car and US 3,000 to get it in good shape. Yes, of course some things break down (like with every car on the road) but I have had nothing irregular in those 3 years...... Agreed, best buy is a 190D 2.5 turbo for the great mileage and pulling power if I'd have the choice.

“One who conquers himself is greater than another who conquers a thousand times a thousand on the battlefield.”

Last edited by Ruudje; 01-23-2007 at 03:26 PM.
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post #39 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-23-2007, 04:08 PM
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Out of the list I would opt for the 92 300E if it has it's service records.

2008 E350 4matic wagon
2000 E320 4matic wagon (sold)
2001 E430 4matic sedan (sold)
1989 300SE (sold)
1994 E420 (sold)
1988 300TE (sold)
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