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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-20-2006, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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Question Ethanol - good or bad

Hello friends,

Maybe I am being neurotic, but since I read or heard something negative about gasoline that is part ethanol, I have been avoiding it like the plague.

Am I nuts, or are there indeed some valid reasons for not using it?

I have also heard that some gasoline contains methanol, instead of or in addition to ethanol, and that sounds even worse! Could some of you please offer your opinions?

Thanks in adavnce,

Musikmann

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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-20-2006, 07:17 PM
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Our gasoline contains 5.7% of ethanol, for years.
Nobody ever ask me.
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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-20-2006, 07:28 PM Thread Starter
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Question 5.7% ethanol

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Originally Posted by Kajtek1
Our gasoline contains 5.7% of ethanol, for years.
Nobody ever ask me.
Here in West Virginia, it is 10% - and I think by the law, it has to say so on the pump. I know you are in California, are you sure your gasoline does not have methanol added too? I was thinking that in CA, that is where it is found (?)

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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-20-2006, 07:46 PM
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Ethanol 85 is really just a bunch of heapy jeapy nonsense. We've been studying it in chem class.

Ethanol essentially burns a heck of alot faster than normal gasoline and thus you're fuel mileage is basically ruined in the process. It doesn't nearly produce as much toxic emissions as normal petrol does, but in the long run, you don't really save much on gas prices because the ethanol burns faster and you will fill up more frequently. Also, when Ethanol is burned, it produces water and CO2 which acts as a global warming agent.

I think it's just to ease the publics concern on the topics of global warming and the alarming decrease in oil supply with everyone saying "Oh we've found an alternate fuel source for our automobiles." I mean, if it goes well, it may reduce the use of fossil fuels but the threat of global warming and the decreasing amount of oil is still inevitable.

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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-20-2006, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
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Exclamation Heapy jeapy nonsense

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinny4290
Ethanol 85 is really just a bunch of heapy jeapy nonsense. We've been studying it in chem class.

Ethanol essentially burns a heck of alot faster than normal gasoline and thus you're fuel mileage is basically ruined in the process. It doesn't nearly produce as much toxic emissions as normal petrol does, but in the long run, you don't really save much on gas prices because the ethanol burns faster and you will fill up more frequently.

I think it's just to ease the publics concern on the topics of global warming and the alarming decrease in oil supply with everyone saying "Oh we've found an alternate fuel source for our automobiles." I mean, if it goes well, it may reduce the use of fossil fuels but the threat of global warming and the decreasing amount of oil is still inevitable.
I have heard or read that too chinny, not to mention that it produces fewer BTUs than does pure petroleum fuel. Therefore, as you pointed out, our mileage is less, but my primary concern is: what, if any, damage is the ethanol, or methanol, doing to our gaskets and seals? If a given engine is specifically designed to run on these alternative fuels, so be it - but are the Mercedes?

A friend of mine calls these sort of alarmists "tree huggers". I think the term is funny as Hell!

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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-20-2006, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musikmann
I have heard or read that too chinny, not to mention that it produces fewer BTUs than does pure petroleum fuel. Therefore, as you pointed out, our mileage is less, but my primary concern is: what, if any, damage is the ethanol, or methanol, doing to our gaskets and seals? If a given engine is specifically designed to run on these alternative fuels, so be it - but are the Mercedes?

A friend of mine calls these sort of alarmists "tree huggers". I think the term is funny as Hell!

The additives of ethonal aren't at all harmful to gaskets or seals because they're entirely organic and toxic-free. Ethanol is a grain alcohol, just like vodka is from a fermented potato and wine is from fermented grapes (bio class woooo!). When combusted, they don't contain any corrosive materials like American petrol does (high sulphur content petrol) which is known to be a corrosive for many engine parts (for example, the high sulphur petrol in America gave BMW a huge problem in the late 1980s and the early 1990s with their M60 V8 used in the E32/early E38 740s and the E34 and early E39 540s and the early E31 840s, because the early M60 V8's cylinders were coated with a "Nikasil" coating which consisted a mix of aluminum, nickel and silicon. THis coating reacted strongly with the high sulphur American petrol and caused the cylinders to corrode, crack and cause all sorts of other expensive and engine-killing problems. They later fixed this by replacing the Nikasil plating to Alusil plating (forgot what that's made of)). When the high sulphur fuel is combusted, it releases a mix of sulphur oxide and nitrous oxide gases which act as corrosive materials.
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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-20-2006, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up Good info my friend

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinny4290
The additives of ethonal aren't at all harmful to gaskets or seals because they're entirely organic and toxic-free. Ethanol is a grain alcohol, just like vodka is from a fermented potato and wine is from fermented grapes (bio class woooo!). When combusted, they don't contain any corrosive materials like American petrol does (high sulphur content petrol) which is known to be a corrosive for many engine parts (for example, the high sulphur petrol in America gave BMW a huge problem in the late 1980s and the early 1990s with their M60 V8 used in the E32/early E38 740s and the E34 and early E39 540s and the early E31 840s, because the early M60 V8's cylinders were coated with a "Nikasil" coating which consisted a mix of aluminum, nickel and silicon. THis coating reacted strongly with the high sulphur American petrol and caused the cylinders to corrode, crack and cause all sorts of other expensive and engine-killing problems. They later fixed this by replacing the Nikasil plating to Alusil plating (forgot what that's made of)). When the high sulphur fuel is combusted, it releases a mix of sulphur oxide and nitrous oxide gases which act as corrosive materials.
Man, I took my share of chemistry in college, but your course is light years ahead of mine (I was doing this in the mid-1970s).

Thanks for the update, I might be old, but I haven't stopped learning yet, just prone to forget what I read

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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-20-2006, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Musikmann
Man, I took my share of chemistry in college, but your course is light years ahead of mine (I was doing this in the mid-1970s).
The only thing they taught ya then was how to make LSD!
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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-20-2006, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musikmann
Here in West Virginia, it is 10% - and I think by the law, it has to say so on the pump. I know you are in California, are you sure your gasoline does not have methanol added too? I was thinking that in CA, that is where it is found (?)
Maybe I misprinted ethanol for methanol. To my knowledge it doesn't make any difference for the engines, but big difference for humans
I didn't notice signs on pumps in California, but run on the page showing formulation of gasoline some time ago and was surprised about the alcohol contest.
This way, or another whenever I have a chance to fill up in AZ (Nevada is using CA gasoline) my mileage skyrockets.
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-21-2006, 02:44 AM
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chinny4290:
Quote:
Ethanol 85 is really just a bunch of heapy jeapy nonsense. We've been studying it in chem class.

Ethanol essentially burns a heck of alot faster than normal gasoline and thus you're fuel mileage is basically ruined in the process. It doesn't nearly produce as much toxic emissions as normal petrol does, but in the long run, you don't really save much on gas prices because the ethanol burns faster and you will fill up more frequently. Also, when Ethanol is burned, it produces water and CO2 which acts as a global warming agent.

I think it's just to ease the publics concern on the topics of global warming and the alarming decrease in oil supply with everyone saying "Oh we've found an alternate fuel source for our automobiles." I mean, if it goes well, it may reduce the use of fossil fuels but the threat of global warming and the decreasing amount of oil is still inevitable.
You are obviously wrong, either by not paying attention to the teacher, or by being lied to by the teacher...
Ethanol + air mixtures burns slower than normal gasoline + air. It's also much more simpler composed than gasoline, that has hundreds of different carbon-based
chemical molecules. Ethanol combustion is more consistent and "predictable" than gasoline ditto. An engine run at pure ethanol produces virtually no soot, since all
molecules react at the same temperature, whereas even stociometric gasoline combustion will emit unburnt carbon based residues.
(Something that the cat has to oxidize later.) Gasoline is also much more prone to knocking and "pingin"(?), due to uneven combustion.

The volumetric energy content is less in ethanol, so you need more E85 than gasoline to move your car a certain distance.
The octane rating is much higher in ethanol, which allows you to run higher compression ratio (modify engine), which increases power and fuel efficiency.
MOST IMPORTANT: gasoline is fossilized carbons = contributes to global warming.
Ethanol can be made of "green carbon" = NO or very little contribution to global warming.

NB! Already by mixing 5 or 10% ethanol in the gasoline you will increase power, fuel efficiency (due to synergetic effects) and reduce global warming effects!

/Alexander - who prefers facts, not urban myths

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