Mercedes-Benz is powering up ... Saying bye bye to superchargers - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-27-2004, 04:47 AM Thread Starter
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Mercedes-Benz is powering up ... Saying bye bye to superchargers

Hi all ...

I am a new member here ... say welcome [:D][:D][:D]

Anyhow, I just wanted to talk about the new trend of MB engineers that many of us know nothing about ...

We know that BMW and Audi have beaten MB in the ratio of engine size to HP war in the previous period. No MB makes nice engines it is just their main concern was on engine reliability.

It seems that that time is about to go. We know some information about the new 3.5l engine (the one we see in the SLK 350 named "M 272"). It is one of the world's most advanced V6 engines with its continuous Dual-VVT (both intake and exhaust cam phasing). In addition to that, it features:

.A dual-stage intake manifold. At low engine speeds the flaps are closed, increasing the length of the intake duct and creating pressure waves to improve the torque generated in the lower engine speed range. No less than 305 Nm are already available from 1500 rpm, which corresponds to approx. 87% of the maximum torque.

.Unique, electro-pneumatically driven "tumble flaps" at the end of each intake duct increase turbulence in the fuel/air mixture at partial loads, optimising the airflow and increasing the speed of combustion. Due to the tumble flaps fuel consumption of the V6 engine can be reduced by up to 0.2 liters per 100 kilometres, depending on engine speed — while improving smoothness at the same time.

.An intelligent heat management system. Coolant circulation is interrupted during the warm-up phase, for example, so that the engine reaches its normal operating temperature more rapidly. This in turn improves the oil flow and considerably reduces friction in the engine, at the same time lowering the exhaust emissions.

.Low-friction aluminium-silicon cylinder liners. The weight saving compared to conventional cast-iron liners is approx. 500g per cylinder.

.A secondary air injection system is also used. This has an afterburning action on the exhaust gases, increasing the temperature in the exhaust ducts and enabling the catalytic converter to operate efficiently at an earlier stage.

This engine can blast to 100km/h in just 5.5sec in the SLK350 which is impressive. The technology will travel from this engine to the 5.0l V8 and 6.0l V12 and you can imagine how far MB can go ...

AMG is also powering up with news about a brand-new N/A 6.3l engine to power SL, S, CL, and CLS. With its power varies from 600HP(CLS) to 650HP(S/CL) to 700HP(SL).

Now MB is back into business and lets see what can BMW and AUDI can do [:p]
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-27-2004, 05:21 AM
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RE: Mercedes-Benz is powering up ... Saying bye bye to superchargers

I think you are missing the point. MB can make very powerful engines only people cant operate such cars safely.

What is the point of getting to 65mph in 4 seconds if 1 second after that you get killed because the car is too powerful. Look at the F1 pace car. Its not even street legal and can ONLY be driven by its designated driver.

There is no trend - poor quality is one perhaps. Then again that will improve over time.

Take note of the fact that BMW is an engine that screams a lot because it has to rev its guts out to do anything.

If BMW, Renault, Honda and MB wanted to they could all make street cars as powerful as F1 cars - there is a reason why they dont.

MB for one values it safety record.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-27-2004, 06:15 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Mercedes-Benz is powering up ... Saying bye bye to superchargers

Thank you miroj for your reply

I did not mean that MB doesnt know how to make F1 performance cars, we all know that they can. I mean why they add a supercharger to an old V6 engine rather than designing a new state of art engine ??

The reason was IMO, Reliability ... They dont want to use non-trusted technologies when they where first introduced. but now ... They are introducing there technologies to the others as they used to do for decades [:D]
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-27-2004, 06:24 AM
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RE: Mercedes-Benz is powering up ... Saying bye bye to superchargers

I also saw a press release yesterday through just-auto that they were ditching superchargers in favour of turbochargers on future engines..

http://just-auto.com/news_detail.asp?art=45159&dm=yes

..report here
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-27-2004, 06:58 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Mercedes-Benz is powering up ... Saying bye bye to superchargers

yeah right

the screw-type supercharger appears in the new E55 AMG is really a master-piece. it is small and narrow so that it can fit easily in the space between cylinders and still gives extra HP100+ . It gives massive torque and requires minimum delay to operate. Its only problem IMO is its sound and fuel consumption and thats why MB are going twards turbochargers and big N/A engines.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-27-2004, 09:53 AM
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RE: Mercedes-Benz is powering up ... Saying bye bye to superchargers

Engine reliability? That must be where they spent ALL their efforts. I'd be happy if the transmission, window regulators, air conditioning, and electrical gremlins would go away. I wish the cars didn't rust out and the sunroof could be counted on to close after it was opened. I wish Hyundai wasn't higher on the list for quality then Mercedes. There are many things to wish for but more engine power isn't even in the top ten.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-28-2004, 01:14 AM
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RE: Mercedes-Benz is powering up ... Saying bye bye to superchargers

I agree the supercharger option is better than turbos for the style of driving most big benz's do... ...I think the main issue is not the amount of extra power they create, but the parasitic-load on the engine at higher revs; the AC on a Range Rover can take over 40bhp, a supercharger is little different. This also accounts for the fuel consumption; that extra load on the engine is going to reduce efficiency...

Maybe a twin-charge kit, as developed by HKS is more suitable; supercharger with electronic clutch at low revs, turbo at higher revs. This removes the lag issue from the turbo set-up and gives more low down torque, and also removes a lot of the load on the engine at higher revs..

b :)
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-28-2004, 09:16 AM
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RE: Mercedes-Benz is powering up ... Saying bye bye to superchargers

not a big fan of turbochargers, they produce way to much heat for practical road application. they are however, perfect for the track or dragstrip so this might lead to loss of engine longevity for mercedes.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-29-2004, 05:11 AM
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RE: Mercedes-Benz is powering up ... Saying bye bye to superchargers

Personally I prefer superchargers, but anyone out there who doesn't appreciate a big engine with a couple of turbos should really sit in the new 600's.

My CL makes me laugh..... the damn thing is sooo fast!

As for the 350 engine,... I have it in my ML and its just another V6 to me, if just a little bit more refined.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-30-2004, 08:17 AM
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RE: Mercedes-Benz is powering up ... Saying bye bye to superchargers

Quote:
Storm. - 7/29/2004 7:11 AM

Personally I prefer superchargers, but anyone out there who doesn't appreciate a big engine with a couple of turbos should really sit in the new 600's.

My CL makes me laugh..... the damn thing is sooo fast!

As for the 350 engine,... I have it in my ML and its just another V6 to me, if just a little bit more refined.
Yes, I agree, the new SL600 (04' twin turbo) is unreal.

It'll be my next car unless the SL55s become inexpensive.

C.

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