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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-07-2004, 08:35 AM
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RE: Mercedes-Benz Quality Rising!!!!

G'day from Australia. I have been lucky enough to drive Benz's for the last seven years first a 190E and currently a 1996 C class. The 190 covered 720,000km before I wrote her off and my current car has traveled 225,000 km. Both these cars have proven to be faultless yes a 1996 model a "new Benz" has been the pinacle of reliability. The service from MB here in Sydney is faultless not only do they make you feel special but the attention to detail is astounding in the way they look after your car. What is going on in the Northern Hemisphere both Europe and the USA are having service complaints. Having witnessed several Lexus cars they are nice when new but have a look once 300,000km comes up, this is where Benzs really hold there own If they have been looked after by the book. I would never consider purchasing anything else my Benz's have proved to be as close to perfect as you can make a motor car thankyou Stuttgart for years of pleasurable motoring my next car will be a Benz Lexus don't make a car to last 700,000km good cars yes but a Benz they are not.

Cheers Mat.
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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-08-2004, 12:50 AM
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RE: Mercedes-Benz Quality Rising!!!!

If you thought your 190E was reliable...go back even further [:)]

I own a 1972 280SE 4.5 (W108) and a 1978 450SEL (W116) and they are unreal is design and quality. Beautiful and timeless. I know they will be in the same shape when a 2004 S-class is 32 and these are 64 years old.

Where Mercedes is slipping is with it's models. I believe they ran into trouble because they caught the platform sharing and making more models than you can swing a bat at disease from "the small three" of North America.

Mercedes was once said that it competed against no one except themselves. This is no longer true since Mercedes' former practice of long running designs is coming to an end to "keep up with the competetion". An example - the S-class - a very important model for Mercedes.

W108/W109: 1965 - 1972: 8 years
W116 : 1972 - 1980: 9 years
W126 : 1980 - 1991: 12 years
W140 : 1992 - 1999: 8 years
W220 : 2000 - 2006: 7 years

A lot of it is psychological. When a car has been around for 10 years before a redesign it really reinforces the belief in the product from the manufacturer and keeps resale strong. It really cheapens a product when it's around for a short time and then a totally new car is debuted. Just because another manufacturer is throwing designs left and right off the line doesn't mean that Mercedes has to do the same.

Why is the SL such a special car to MB? Because it goes forever without a redesign.

Think of TV. "Survivor" and "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire". Both were inititally extremely exciting shows to start off with because they were also regulated and not on a lot. As time went on a the networks noticed it could be a cash cow since they built it up at the beginning, they started airing them more often. The more shows made, the quality slipped. When people got their fill after a short time, they moved onto the next fad. Hence, my belief is what is wrong with Mercedes and the influence an American company has had on it. Think of Chrysler as the network people I used in the previous example. How would you feel is you were the proud owner of a SLK and then to see it as scraps for Chrysler?

Mercedes has got to cut down the number of cars in it's range. They have to link the models together better instead of radical redisgns...Mercedes used to be able to trick it's customers without keen eyes to think a 20 year old car was new...can't do that anymore... It has to run the ranges longer as well. S-class, SL-class and CL-class should be hand assembled. Mercedes has GOT to stop making cars outside of Germany. A stupid example again: if you like a girl from Australia because of her awesome accent, and then you ended up with her sister born in the North America with a normal accent telling you to like her because her parents are from Australia. It's not the same thing, you want the ligitimate thing! You want a German car made in Germany.

Once upon a time Mercedes turned their noses up to the likes of Rolls-Royce. They can no longer do that.

This issue goes way past making sure an engine runs reliably, making sure a power window works or making sure the car cools itself well...those are important, but tribial...they are by-products of what Mercedes/Chrysler has done to itself....they have stopped blending advanced technology with the precision of unhurried old world hand craftsmanship in turn of a feeding frenzy of new designs and multiple models...they have forgotten their past...and it will condemn their future. Seems like the only thing Mercedes has preserved is being snobby.

Last example, I promise...like Mazda, Chrysler, Kia, and others changing their emblems...really cheapens the brand...and they're forgetting their pasts...

What would happen is the new Rolls-Royce lacked the flying lady and it's grille? Or if Mercedes changed it's emblems from a tristar to a MB in the centre of a circle.

You can make something run well...but that does not change the image of the brand or their behavior...something else bigger is going on guys than elctrical failures in the new cars...

So, "Mercedes-Benz Quality Rising!!!!" - perhaps. But it's image is still dropping.

I hope this made sense and I look forward to hearing what you thought! [:D]

Tory
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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-08-2004, 05:49 AM
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RE: Mercedes-Benz Quality Rising!!!!

Tory you do have a point in the rush for market share perhaps the image is being diluted however here in Oz Mercedes are still relatively expensive cars hence Australia's roads aren't cluttered with them. I can assure you here in Oz driving behind that three pointed star brings a grin to my face and admiring glances from passers by something a Lexus doesn't do. The early 90's were a wake up call for MB either make them cheaper or a larger potential customer was required to survive. It can not have been easy to build the best car to a price I feel they have reached a good compromise yes there have been some problems but all in all I think the image is still there. I would be happy with a new E class for weekdays and a W126 SEC for the weekends best of both worlds all I need now is the money.
Cheers Mat
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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-08-2004, 10:14 AM
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RE: Mercedes-Benz Quality Rising!!!!

Yes they are in a rush for a market share and I don't know why.

Mercedes is or at least was it's own market! No need to flood the market before. People went to Mercedes for Mercedes!

There is no need for them to compete like it's the subcompact market where people are easily swayed to another manufacturer by cheap thrills like 10 more hp or "free a/c" etc...

Tory
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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-08-2004, 03:52 PM
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RE: Mercedes-Benz Quality Rising!!!!

Tory their eagerness for market share is to increase the profit line. Why does this need to be done I guess they will never publish exactly how much money they have lost through the merger with Chrysler but I'll bet there are some people in Germany that can't believe that first they ever got tied up with an American company and the shear amounts of money they have had to write off. No offence intended here Tory but the US government will put up tarrif's to protect even the most inefficent industries and expect everyone else to buy their products but heaven forbid anyone trying to export to the USA. As USA is MB biggest market outside Germany perhaps the Germans could see an easy opening cleary someone was looking through rose coloured glasses. From a bussiness perspective getting into bed with the American's was a very bad idea, Daimler and Maybach would have rolled in their graves the day the Germans thought they could do business with the American's. Just my opinion Tory their are probably heaps of people out there that think that one day Daimler Chrysler will be the top dog but I think it could be quite some time and I guess that the more profit you can make the quicker you can get rid of the problems.
Cheers Mat
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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 12:25 PM
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RE: Mercedes-Benz Quality Rising!!!!

I promise to myself that I will not buy another Mercedes until they are what they used to be. Since that will probably never happen, my 2003 E-Class and 2002 S-Class are going to be up for sale soon. In the past year I have bought 3 Accords and a Civic and I cannot believe that a Honda is not only on par with Mercedes, but much, much better. One of my Accords is made in Japan and I can assure everyone that it is a MUCH better car than my S430 in terms of quality, reliability and customer service.

Mercedes of the past was exclusive, it took 10 years to sell 50,000 190's vs. one year to sell 50,000 C-Classes.

Mercedes used to build completely solid cars using only the best materials in and out. The front of my S-Class looks like a toy playcar sold at Toys R Us. The overhead assist handles are made of the cheapest plastics.

Mercedes is going radical with it's design. With that alone, when a Mercedes does not look like a Mercedes, quality is no longer an issue.

My 200 and 190E are now over 20 years and reliability has been faultless. My 2003 E-Class had a dozen problems in the first three weeks.

I could go on and on about the problems I have had with my S-Class. I'm sure you die reading my ten page complaint, so I'll leave it at that.

The S-Class was facelifted after 3 years. Higher quality materials were used. It is a way that Mercedes admits that the original sucks.

I almost cried knowing that I will have to end my relationship with Mercedes-Benz, and that the legend and over engineering of Mercedes cars will be gone forever. Just over a decade ago, Mercedes-Benz was the best. Period. Nobody else could come close.

1985 190E (2.0)
1992 190E 2.6
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2002 S430
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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 03:56 PM
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RE: Mercedes-Benz Quality Rising!!!!

Quote:
w108 - 5/8/2004 2:50 AM



Last example, I promise...like Mazda, Chrysler, Kia, and others changing their emblems...really cheapens the brand...and they're forgetting their pasts...


Tory

Actually, Chrysler actually did go back to one of their symbols from the 50's with there current symbol.

The Mighty AckVig
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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-10-2004, 10:14 PM
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RE: Mercedes-Benz Quality Rising!!!!

...126 all the way! 420SEL's rule!

'88 420 SEL Daily Driver
'83 240D (Manual) SOLD, but always remembered
'83 240D (Auto) SOLD (parts car)
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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-12-2004, 10:19 AM
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RE: Mercedes-Benz Quality Rising!!!!

Quote:
ackvig - 5/9/2004 3:56 PM



Actually, Chrysler actually did go back to one of their symbols from the 50's with there current symbol.
I have no knowledge on Chrysler like that other wise I'd be in the Chrysler fan club [:D]

Regardless if they are "going back" or whatever, my original point still stands, they keep changing, weather it's the wings, the star or the little coin thingy...it's all the same - a change of logo - a change of image...what if Mercedes suddenly reverted back to an earlier logo and cancelled the star? Or Audi was suddenly three rings instead of 4...the good car companies simply don't change their logo aka heritage...unless there is something monumental happening to the company like the four rings of the auto union...you know that I mean...If the Chrysler/Mercedes-Benz union meant anything, Mercedes-Benz and Chrysler would have both changed their logo to something they had in common, not necessarily the same logo but something to "celebrate" the union.

AND Matt Kean - I didn't take offense to any of that...because it's true weather it's cars or sugar...but MB is far too commercial now...meaning that they're simply just making cars now..."The Best or Nothing" said by Daimer no longer applies....because plastic is not the best [:)]

Take care guys

Tory
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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-12-2004, 12:26 PM
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RE: Mercedes-Benz Quality Rising!!!!

if you want to know where is the quality just crask one,I own a 300cdt and 300tdt and a 2000 ford excursion diesel, I nener wanted a c`ar w/ a computer in it, I do all my own reapirs and emissions be damed the cars always make sence when one brakes down, there is no logic on the ford nice diesel but it left my wife 3 times on the side of the highway and all 3 times I bailed her out w the older benzes.There is no new car I want to buy, I will always have a benz diesel untill there is no more or untill "big brother" starts outlawing safe cars.
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