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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-12-2004, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Brakes

Her is definition from MBUSA website on E500 model. By the way--dealership has been great. The situation has been escalated to MB regional supervisor. Thank you for you continued interest.

Sensotronic Brake Control Sensotronic is an electrohydraulic braking system which transmits brake pressure individually to each wheel based on driver input and various vehicle parameters. Sensotronic more precisely controls brake pressure at each wheel during normal braking, emergency stopping and ESP activity2. Soft Stop precisely modulates brake pressure as the car approaches a stop during normal braking. Automatic brake drying applies the brakes lightly and briefly based on windshield wiper use and driver braking intervals, to reduce moisture on the brake surfaces in wet weather. Predictive brake priming sets the brake pads nearer the discs when the driver quickly releases the accelerator, for faster brake response.
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-12-2004, 07:06 PM
Where's my auto-leveling?
 
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RE: Brakes

Quote:
VMan - 1/12/2004 7:52 PM

Her is definition from MBUSA website on E500 model. By the way--dealership has been great. The situation has been escalated to MB regional supervisor. Thank you for you continued interest.

Sensotronic Brake Control Sensotronic is an electrohydraulic braking system which transmits brake pressure individually to each wheel based on driver input and various vehicle parameters. Sensotronic more precisely controls brake pressure at each wheel during normal braking, emergency stopping and ESP activity2. Soft Stop precisely modulates brake pressure as the car approaches a stop during normal braking. Automatic brake drying applies the brakes lightly and briefly based on windshield wiper use and driver braking intervals, to reduce moisture on the brake surfaces in wet weather. Predictive brake priming sets the brake pads nearer the discs when the driver quickly releases the accelerator, for faster brake response.
Okay I believe this is what they call brake-by-wire. If I am correct, you have no direct connection between the hydraulic system and the brake pedal, which would explain why you had no brakes at all.

No wonder they were shocked. This system is supposed to have many safeties built into it. I would ask for some guarantees that the problem is solved.

Andy

2009 ML350, Iridium Silver, Ash MB Tex

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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-12-2004, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Brakes

I am pushing to get the vehicle replaced. I don't see either myself or my family in this particular car again. I don't know why Mercedes would take on the liability of sending this vehicle back into traffic when a replacement is the smarter thing to do from every perspective. This mishap is apparently very unusual and (in my opinion) requires more than a fix and a promise. Thanks again for the interaction.
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-12-2004, 07:24 PM
Where's my auto-leveling?
 
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RE: Brakes

Quote:
VMan - 1/12/2004 8:21 PM

I am pushing to get the vehicle replaced. I don't see either myself or my family in this particular car again. I don't know why Mercedes would take on the liability of sending this vehicle back into traffic when a replacement is the smarter thing to do from every perspective. This mishap is apparently very unusual and (in my opinion) requires more than a fix and a promise. Thanks again for the interaction.
I hope you can get a replacement. Please let me know how you make out.

Andy

Andy

2009 ML350, Iridium Silver, Ash MB Tex

P2: Rear Cam, 115V Outlet, Parktronic, Pwr Seats w/ 4-Way Lumbar w/ Mem Pwr Folding Mirrors, Comand w/ Navi & Voice Control, HD Radio w/ Satellite, + iPod/MP3 Interface, Harman/Kardon, Keyless-Go, Pwr Liftgate
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-12-2004, 08:01 PM
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RE: Brakes

Hi.


Quote:
Sensotronic Brake Control Sensotronic is an electrohydraulic braking system which transmits brake pressure individually to each wheel based on driver input and various vehicle parameters. Sensotronic more precisely controls brake pressure at each wheel during normal braking, emergency stopping and ESP activity2. Soft Stop precisely modulates brake pressure as the car approaches a stop during normal braking. Automatic brake drying applies the brakes lightly and briefly based on windshield wiper use and driver braking intervals, to reduce moisture on the brake surfaces in wet weather. Predictive brake priming sets the brake pads nearer the discs when the driver quickly releases the accelerator, for faster brake response

A whole mouth full for something that leaves
you stranded without brakes and could get
you killed.

I would return the car and get my money back.
Then buy a nice 560SEC and dump some cash into
that(and have a nice car) and still have lotsa
dough left for a kicking stereo.

The more gadgets and toys the more that can
break.
How does the saying go?K.I.S.S.



Louis.
post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-16-2004, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Brakes

Brief update.

1. Local dealer here has indicated that the SBC completely failed. They also said they have never heard of such a failure before but want me to pick up the car.

2. Earlier this week I emailed and then phoned Mercedes Corporate Customer Relations. I received a canned email response back indicating that they
"recognize my feelings" but were "not in a position to take back the vehicle." They told me to contact the local dealer.

3. The phone call consisted of me explaining the situation to the rep. He also referred me back to the dealer. When I asked him if there was someone I could communicate with in the organization who might be able to help, he repeatedly told me that noone was accessable to me besides himself or the president of MB U.S.A. Mr Paul Halata.

4. The local service rep has been very easy to work with, however, he was not able to tell me what caused the failure of the SBC module. No one is willing to give me any kind of guarantee that this won't happen again.
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-16-2004, 04:46 PM
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RE: Brakes

You may be want to contact National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
www.nhtsa.org

Kirill
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-16-2004, 06:00 PM
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RE: Brakes

I think that's great advice, contact the feds. Protect all of us if this is an issue that needs addressing.

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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-16-2004, 06:40 PM
Where's my auto-leveling?
 
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RE: Brakes

Vman,

I would write to Paul Halata President of MB U.S.A. Here's why, I work for a manufacturer. When President receives a well written letter, he takes the letter and gives it to a Vice President and says statisfy this customer. The VP gives it to the someone who can make the problem go away. Once they satisfy the customer they report back to the president.

It is worth a try.


Andy

2009 ML350, Iridium Silver, Ash MB Tex

P2: Rear Cam, 115V Outlet, Parktronic, Pwr Seats w/ 4-Way Lumbar w/ Mem Pwr Folding Mirrors, Comand w/ Navi & Voice Control, HD Radio w/ Satellite, + iPod/MP3 Interface, Harman/Kardon, Keyless-Go, Pwr Liftgate
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-17-2004, 11:09 AM
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RE: Brakes

That is one of the most frightening I have heard in terms of an auto system failure. Like Andy said, the definition describes a brake by wire system. It shouldn't be able to fail. Kirill's suggestion to contact the NHTSA and Andy suggesting to write to the president of MBUSA are excellent.

One thought I had, though I have never tried to do this as an end consumer, is demand a failure analysis of the SBC. I would think MB woud want to do this as soon as possible. If the SBC unit actually went bad and caused this problem, then it should be possible to find exactly what in the unit failed and caused you to be at risk. This could take some time but there should be more than sufficient motivation. Make sure that the service center doesn't just throw the replaced SBC away. I know in many states, if you have a repair done, the old part is yours, but that assumes you paid for the repair I think. I wonder how it applies in the case of a warranty repair.

I can understand you not wanting to be in that car. However, I would feel better about it if the car had been completely tested specifically for this issue than rolling the dice on a replacement. You might want to ask the service center to outline how the repair will be done and the test procedure they are going to use to insure you that you will not see this failure in your car again. I'd ask for written procedures or any documentation they have. They could say no to that request but doesn't hurt to try. Just asking for things like that can prompt more focus on the issue.

I'd sure like to know what is supposed to happen if this system fails. I can't believe that it would leave your vehicle coasting. Infant mortality of anything is tough to deal with. It probably passed whatever final screening test and then failed. Could be a loose component, a bad component, a semiconductor part could have been exposed to static discharge just enough that it dies later. Scarey.

Ultimately, glad that you, Vman, were safe. Hope you can get this dealt with to your satisfaction.
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