MB-AMG "HIGH PERFORMANCE" US-OPEN CLAIMS - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 07:50 AM Thread Starter
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MB-AMG "HIGH PERFORMANCE" US-OPEN CLAIMS

They claimed it takes 50yrs to understand performance.
And in 50yrs Mercedes-Benz AMG still has yet to fathom Sir Isaac Newton's Laws of Motion with F=ma (Force = mass x acceleration and is independent of velocity).
After-all, they still produce the heaviest 'high-performance' cars in the world (only idiots who don't know anything about high performance & chassis design/suspension setup technologies believes weight adds performance stability). Nobody ever said 'wait, let me throw 4-friends into my drag car for traction' before a worthy race. Don't even need four friends to add 1000 extra pounds to an AMG, it's already included.

Truth is in 50yrs AMG is still a chop-shop wanna-be high performance car company believing they are 'exotic'. There is NOTHING exotic about converted luxury sedans unless you prefer AMG-Panzer tanks when lining up to a Chevy that's bout to drag your mislead-ass down the road with far less power & weight.

But then again, Stephen Cannon, Dieter Zetsche & Tobias Moers still stand behind his level of physics (STILL THE LOW CLASS TRASH OF THE NOW CL-ASSLESS MERCEDES-BENZ). 50YRS and the reason you Swines renamed your historic CL-class and eliminated all SL & CL (or SWINE-COUPE)'s integrated seatbelts had to come from a sole-survivor you shoveled your sickness & disgrace into........F'n FOUL COWARDS, CRIMINALS ACTUALLY for walking into a Fed court and denying the physics you are supposed to be masters of after 100yrs (physics from 1687, long before your first horse carriage). You're like barbarians with chisels disregarding lives at your own disgraceful will. STAND UP COWARDS!!! Facebook "Mercedes-Benz' Laws of Physics" to understand AMG's level of physics and legal sickness that took 50yrs to achieve when a single engineer with weekend performance experience saw what you denied all of us and was left using his limbs for life before a Mercedes-Benz' airbag adopted into an AMG with no modifications split the back of my head-open against the moonroof at just 35mph head-on (fresh off a 25mph auto downshift in a CL55amg). What does a chop shop that produces luxury car engine conversions know about real performance? What does a piece of sh$# who denies Newton's 2nd Law of Motion know about Acceleration?





Last edited by virage105; 09-05-2016 at 07:55 AM.
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 08:03 AM
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You really don't know what you are talking about do you? You're probably pulling somewhere between 0.5-0.75Gs under acceleration, but the sort of crash that would trip the airbag sensors would have an initial impact of well over 50Gs. So 50 - 0.75 = 49.25Gs, yeah, still plenty enough to trip the airbag sensors. Inform yourself, educate yourself, perhaps take some university level physics classes, or at least read a little bit of wikipedia, and instead of spreading retard rage ask the community to clarify your questions and concerns about modern vehicle safety.
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 08:29 AM Thread Starter
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Mr. Keyboard Warrior Patman1: 4yrs of 19-22cr/sem at Polytechnic University (now NYU-Poly) for an Environmental Engineering degree was more than enough to understand Sir Isaac Newton's 2nd Law of Motion even though Federal Judge Sandra J. Feuerstein didn't believe so. 8yrs designing and building groundwater treatment systems at historic war/space manufacturing sites was more than enough to fully design/understand how mechanical-electrical systems work thru process logic controls. Being a front seat passenger fresh off a 25mph CL55amg auto downshift into 516ftlbs of torque within feet of a stretch limo's front bumper was enough to understand that metal can crumple while a vehicle is still applying acceleration and if a sensor mounted to a front bumper is still driving thru another vehicle it's not going to sense deceleration and you're stuck waiting for the firewall decelerometer to finally sense it as/after you reached the dashboard while your seatbelt is also uncoiling for the same reason and when finally engaged, isn't even connected to the frame.....leaving my seat back bending forward without barely a bruise in my left shoulder. The Engineer-turned attorney who sat on the board that made integrated seatbelts happen once said to me "that is a testament to it's design" when I replied "I'd have preferred my shoulder being damaged before my face reached that dash".

Truth is there is no formal consideration in the entire auto-industry of accelerations' affect on safety-system's engagement. Truth is I witnessed the person who's rib cage was smashed apart against that black steering wheel above, brace outward for a timely airbag deployment. Truth is he didn't incur a single limb break but broke more bones than I did limbs. Truth is I performed our world's first motive powered IIHS 40mph/40% overlap crash test under a vehicle's motive power using a CL55amg. NOW IF I AM NOT THE MOST QUALIFIED PERSON ON THIS SUBJECT IN THE WORLD TODAY, STANDING ON DATA CHALLENGING MERCEDES BENZ TO SUPPORT THEIR OUTRAGEOUS LAWS OF PHYSICS......WHO IS?
Please think before you waste all of our time again with your keyboard warrior antics. Did you even visit the https://www.facebook.com/MercedesLawsofPhysics/?fref=ts before your Wikipedia-based episode of verbal diarrhea? All you have to ask yourself is if a vehicle is powerful enough to crumple it's metal while still accelerating, should it's occupants be left with restraint systems that don't even consider acceleration as admitted? Or do you believe you or Mercedes-Benz actually knows more than Einstein's hero, Newton? I had a second to think about this and saved my life using my limbs. Mercedes-Benz had 100yrs and still refuses to acknowledge this. If you're still hateful towards me then tell us all why only one of us have published our IIHS 40mph/40% overlap crash test photos/data in their entirety? If you and MB knows that much about acceleration, then why not shut a sole survivor up by publishing the results? Or do you believe a new model-name, no more integrated seatbelts and another 'crash-prevention' process logic control system by Mercedes-Benz is enough to justify any passenger being without their last line of defense in any converted sedan with an AMG badge? Do you believe when you apply enough pull on an integrated seatbelt it only fails at the top connection point instead of the cantilever's joint (or seat bottom) too? It doesn't even take a single high school physics class nor your Wikipedia searches to fathom these very fundamental & simple physics that should never be denied by a blasphemous P.O.S. 'world's first' auto company...........unless you too make a living imposing bullshit. i don't and I'm the only one standing on my words with world's first crash test data published for all to see. Not hiding it like Cannon, Zetsche & Moers are............50yrs of performance.......for this?........

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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 09:08 AM
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Not wanting to start an arguement here, I have a question with regard to " Being a front seat passenger fresh off a 25mph CL55amg auto downshift into 516ftlbs of torque within feet of a stretch limo's front bumper" .This sounds like wide open throttle, why? Did the driver miss the brake or what?
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 09:23 AM
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You see, again you're doing that. You're just raging at abstract people on the internet again. At least I've had a tiny amount of consideration for the physics involved. I don't care about your degree in environmental engineering, or how many sewers you've built, or how much you think you know about logical systems. Do you really think that if ANY car detects a crash, it will leave the engine running? Do you really think that the default fall-back safety feature of an engine is to go to wide open throttle? What the hell was the driver doing at WOT, presumably in a 25mph zone, and in clear view of traffic??? Your airbags deployed, which means your engine shut off, which means that the tiny amount of acceleration that an engine can have compared to the forces involved in a crash would have not made a difference. Don't believe me? Here's a thought experiment: Park your CL55 right up against a wall, then mash the accelerator. The car will not turn itself into a pancake, you know why? Because the wheels will lose grip long before the chassis gets any damage. Yeah you will ruin the paint on your bumper, but if somehow the condition of the paint on the front bumper is responsible for the severity of your accident, then I will go to all my university's lectures this semester in a ballerina outfit.

Frankly, you strike me as the kind of person who sees an SRS light on their dashboard and takes the light bulb out. And if you think Mercedes are unsafe cars, go buy a Kia.
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Last edited by Patman1; 09-05-2016 at 09:26 AM.
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
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Pinkser - In this experience both drivers braced on their accelerators and didn't leave single gouge in the asphalt surface as all severe head-ons according to the Detective who prepared the Case Report. I was a front passenger left wondering by the actions of two drivers and the world's first auto manufacturer if I can depend on the airbag under 516ftlbs of acceleration off of an auto-downshift in a CL55amg at 25mph directly in front of a stretch limousine. I used my limbs and broke them, the only broken limbs of four people involved, and the only survivor. The photo above shows the scar an AMG airbag (or really Mercedes-Benz non-performance orientated air bag) left on the back of my head against the moonroof after impacting the dashboard. All I can ask is: "Are drivers supposed to be in control of occupant restraint systems they too depend on?" "Even if they are aware of the conflict an engine's accelerator has against an airbag decelerometer?".

Patman1 - thanks for the lesson and have a nice life being an online Mercedes-BEnz AMG cheerleader. I drive a Chevy now and feel much safer than I ever did in a CLK or CL (a Chevy truck that's lighter, faster than the clk w/2less cylinders, out-turns and has better mpg......). Here's some burnout videos just for you.
https://www.facebook.com/MercedesLaw...4398048825302/
Mercedes-Benz AMG: Giving your rear tires a second wind longer after your head met the windshield w/136g's @ 36mph! AMG PERFORMANCE - 50yrs worth summed up here:
https://www.facebook.com/MercedesLaw...9741429290964/

Last edited by virage105; 09-05-2016 at 11:59 AM.
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 12:04 PM
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Patman - if the engine is off why is this driver's head reaching a windshield at 136g's at just 36mph? I mean, the car is actually going backwards to does that mean he was listening to heavy metal on the radio? Yeah, that's what you sound like. But notice how that steering wheel didn't even reach the dashboard............? But maybe the airbag split the driver's liver in half, tore apart his aorta and broke nearly every rib even collapsing a lung you ugly soul. Anybody can bitch and judge but this is as black & white as either agreeing to or not agreeing to the force of vehicle acceleration being acknowledged by auto manufacturers when designing high-performance occupant restraint systems. A process AMG bypasses when doing engine swaps............50yrs of performance.........an absolute disgrace.
https://www.facebook.com/MercedesLaw...4398798825227/[/QUOTE]

Can't you understand these simple physics? The power of the engine + the available grip from the tires will give you an acceleration of AT MOST 1G if you have 4 wheel drive. And that's accelerating from a stand still, where your gearbox has the most gearing advantage and you have the most friction available from the tires to generate forward acceleration. The driver was already driving, so he did not have the gearing advantage of 1st gear. Now given that the CL55 is powerful enough to spin its wheels in higher gears, we can sweep that under the rug. But what we cannot sweep under the rug is the fact that it's rear drive on street tires, so you have an acceleration of at most 0.75G. Look at the fastest race cars in the world, Formula 1 cars, their absolute maximum acceleration is about 3Gs. 3 effing Gs, that's peanuts compared to the 136Gs sustained by the driver. Just take a look at how long it takes for a car to accelerate up to any speed, versus how fast it comes to a stop when it hits a wall/obstacle. You want to know why the mercedes engineers are right? And you want to know why the judge's decision to drop the whatever bullshit about F = MA, because F = MA has no business in calculating the force sustained during an impact. You need the equation for IMPULSE. You want to know why? Because F= MA is missing an extremely important component, time. You can't even calculate the forces of a crash using F = MA, because the only variable you have is mass, you don't know net acceleration and you don't know the force generated by the impact. Remember, to get the force using MA you need the net acceleration. If you are on a rocket who's motor can only push you up at a gross +9.8 m/s^2, you are not moving at all, because you are accelerating upwards at the same rate as gravity is pulling you back down, so the net force is a big juicy medium-rare zero.

Let me give you another example, just to try and make you understand. Imagine you are traveling at whatever speed limit your nearest highway has. And imagine you crash into a very large sponge that could slow you down over a very long time. You would be fine, no airbags would deploy, you could drive away from that crash. Now imagine you hit a building, the only thing you'll be driving in is an ambulance. According to your physics, you would either be fine in both crashes or dead in both. You're missing an important component, TIME. The 136Gs don't come from the relatively slow speed of the car upon impact, they come from the few milliseconds it took to stop. Impulse. Here's an other example. Imagine you're jumping off a 1 story tall building. In one attempt, you jump into a foam pit, and because it was so much fun you go and do it again. Now imagine you jump onto the concrete driveway. What do you think will happen? Splat or bounce?

I'm flying to germany and buying everyone at Daimler AG a beer for having to put up with claims such as yours.
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 12:40 PM
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Well my family has owned Mercedes since 1980. Since there is a C215 CL Posted and I happen to own a 2006 CL600 I will talk. I have not even been in a wreck in my CL thanks be to God. However, I was in a W126 S Class(Heavy car) and also a W210 E430(Large car) and aW212 2010 E550(Large car) Here I am alive and well in Florida typing this post. My W126 while a older was rear ended by a Dodge Ram truck destroying the S Class with 4 people in the car. All 4 of us walked away with nothing more then being shook up. The second was the E430 that was destroyed in a snowstorm sliding off the road on black ice and into a ditch. Again we all walked away fine. The third was a large deer in the Adirondacks that I hit. Car was a goner and again walked away fine.

As far as your other comments. AMG is a in house tuner of Mercedes-Benz. They never intended to be a exotic car company. In fact Mercedes has only made just a couple of Exotic cars(AMG GTS, SLS AMG and the CLK GTR) Exotics they are because they are not based off a lesser car. As far as chop shop comment that is pretty cute I must say... When you understand how ABC works along with Airmatic systems you will then understand why a CL600/CL65 rides the way it does and can lay down some very impressive 1/4 times. If you actually attempt to drive a car of this caliber to the full potential on nothing else other then a racetrack or a professional closed course then I have some very sad news for you... You talk about exotic and high performance chassis. Well lets take a couple of my own examples. My Ferrari F355, My Porsche 911 996 and my CL600 Mercedes. With a small tune on my CL600 I would take either one of these cars in the 1/4, half mile, 0-60, top speed. All of this while getting a massage in the seats that are heated and cooled while my wife and 2 other passengers ride along. Impressive when you get a sense of proportion now isn't it? Now lets go back to the Ferrari 355 and the Porsche 911 996 shall we? The 355 and 996 are proper drivers cars. No matter what the CL will never match the 2 sports cars handling, looks, stopping power and agility. Ever drive a 996 on a track? You will see what I am talking about. Ever do a road rally in a Ferrari? You will see why the CL is not a cornering car despite it ABC ability. While it may handle great for such a large car and ABC assisting it it can not mach cornering ability. So what does all this mean? Well you seem to praise Chevy so much. Does this mean no one should drive a Large 3500 trucks and tune them? It is large and powerful! But according to you that must be a panzer tank as well. So my conclusion to you is this. Learn about different cars and their ability. A small lightweight nimble sports car with lots of power is just as dangerous as a heavy CL Tuned. It is all in the hands of the driver. A smart driver knows the cars ability and does not ask for more then that. Why do you think people do not ever own just one car?
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 01:04 PM Thread Starter
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Patman1 -
It's amazing how many people are stuck on the 'what's 1g versus 50g's at the vehicle cg?' based on what the tires are capable of on a roadway. I'm holding published IIHS 40mph/40% offset crash test data (at 36mph at max cl55amg acceleration). Mercedes-Benz AMG holds constant velocity IIHS 40mph/40% offset CL crash test data (video published on youtube but no data published). AMG is the one claiming acceleration has no affect whatsoever on the PULSE of a frontal collision or timing of restraint system's deployment. I've experienced and claim acceleration has an affect using the genius of Sir Isaac Newton and World's 1st Crash Test Data. What's Mercedes' scared of not to publish their IIHS40mph/40% overlap crash test results to show us there are no less forces involved than my 36mph test at max accel. Do you think it's their morality or corporate culture to stand up like men, or act like swine laughing at a sole survivor and dragging out this subject?

After-all you do a good job of explaining to us how opposing forces can cancel each others out. You mention 'IMPULSE' and if you meant 'Pulse' then indeed it matters. Mercedes-Benz AMG claims acceleration has no affect on the pulse of a collision. I'm saying it does and that because it does it's time that airbag sensors are not being triggered as vehicles drive thru each others under massive acceleration. If AMG engineers were 'right' then why would I do this? Oh yeah AMG doesn't have a single in-house high-performance occupant restraint system engineer. That's an outrageous expense when they can just blindly adopt their parent companies' luxury sedan safety systems. That's why there's only one real Engineer in this rather CLassless subject with Stephen Cannon, Dieter Zutsche & Tobias Moers. And why all they've served me was laughable Mercedes-Benz' Laws of Physics that contradict Sir Isaac Newton's Laws of Motion. Even under acceleration there's an end to your 'foam pit' analogy because there's nothing left to crumple in front of the firewall. An occupant should not have to wait until that firewall-mounted decelerometer triggers. The occupants already reached the dashboard by then. And you can read about Mercedes-Benz' Chemical Engineer Lawrence Flemming bragging about integrate seatbelts being safer. Where's that P.o.S. now to explain why they no longer exist in all SL & CL (now Swine-Coupes) if they are indeed safer? Afterall, after 50yrs of wrenching AMG doesn't have a single occupant restraint system engineer in-house. They are the one's claiming 50yrs of performance experience knows more than a weekend hobbyist on US-Open commercials. I'm just saying they are full of shit. Just like you. Buy those German Engineers a drink for standing behind a vehicle they aren't even allowed by management to properly engineer (not when Fed guidelines allows AMG to convert luxury sedans w/o a single safety concern in increasing occupant restraint system performance accordingly. Is that what they mean by "Jerry-Rigging"? Never looked at it that way because I once thought Germans had capable engineers. Not a lust for death by design that Mercedes-Benz still has.
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
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2000 c280 Sport -
Sorry to hear how many non-AMG wrecks you've been in but owning a CL600 now doesn't connect your accident experiences to mine.
13.0-something seconds in the 1/4-mile is cute, with 500hp it's just sad (so is 12.7 with 700++ftlbs of torque). I'm not the one claiming publicly to be a high performance car company, AMG is. Acknowledging Acceleration is Step 1. Denying acceleration altogether is sacrilegious and despicable from any auto manufacturer, let alone a 'high performance' one.
You're right, AMG is nothing more than a tuning shop. Thanks for letting us know they are capable of tuning a comfortable ride for a tank. I've driven the crash test CL55amg for a few months before doing the best thing I could with an AMG.

So are you trying to tell us that it's ok for an in-house tuning division of Mercedes-Benz to denounce acceleration's affect on occupant restraint systems and not reconsider a single occupant restraint systems' details when hot-rodding 4400lb luxury sedans from 330ftlbs to 738ftlbs of torque? Or the driver who braced outward for an airbag to save his life is actually responsible for unknowingly fooling the airbag system because as Mercedes-Benz AMG formally admitted 'Acceleration has no affect WHATSOEVER on the pulse of a frontal collision or airbags ability to timely deploy'........Do you think you can get Ferrari & Porsche to claim they also don't acknowledge acceleration when designing the occupant restraint systems of theirs that you strap into? I've driven an Electric Formula 1-car, even spun it out across a sandpatch at 80mph w/o stopping thru the curve. Not really into the limits of tire contact and have spent my spare time in the past flying up to 105mph in 18-20' tunnel outboard HydroStreams and Stokers capable of 3G turns and 12-13sec 1/4mi. acceleration. When built right they drove themselves at least up to the snotty chop conditions that separated the heavier footers from the true high performance wheelers (that break a sweat from the physics of driving at 100+mph practically off-road). Mercedes-Benz AMG is currently building the heaviest and highest powered luxury sedan conversions while formally announcing their denial of acceleration's affect upon frontal collisions. If you don't see anything wrong with that then you may own a lot of nice cars but have a lot to learn about high performance engineering (not tuning). Do you also believe my seat should have only failed at where the integrated seatbelt is connected at the top (as Mercedes-Benz AMG claims)? I didn't make this garbage up and it is all garbage indeed. I'm just calling it out. No need to try to cheerlead them without first addressing if you agree or not with their claims denouncing acceleration on any frontal collision and claiming a diving board will only snap at it's tip, not the base (a cantilevered structure). I manufacturer auto products and wouldn't dare deny the physics that my designs are supposed to master. That's petty CLasslessness. Stephen Cannon, Dieter Zetsche & Tobias Moers - are you proud of yourselves. Laughing over a Whiskey on this line of posts as I'm still the one saying 'STAND UP BOYS' 5yrs later? An Army Officer, pHd and Mechanic all denying Sir Isaac Newton to a guy with a rear head scar from your airbag like little petty P.O.S.'s you each are who'll NEVER STAND UP. Plug & play corporate figures or just the foulest representatives of any automobile manufacturer not hesitating to deny the very physics your industry is base on and not even replying to my invite to the world's first motive powered crash test with a vehicle by the world's first auto producer. Do all German Engineers believe acceleration has no affect on occupant restraint systems? Or is a German manufacturer's lust for blood that endless? If it's even a German manufacturer anymore.......

Last edited by virage105; 09-05-2016 at 01:37 PM.
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