I am looking to get into an off-road vehicle and I need some help. The problem I face is what to get. I have read extensively on many different models of off-road trucks and I am faced with a variety of superior machines. Basically... what I need help and advice on is what to chose.
I have boiled it all down to choosing the Mercedes G-Wagen (300, 280, ex-mil), Land Rover Series (II, IIa, III, ex-mil.), Toyota FJ-40, or maybe a Jeep (CJ-5,7,8).
I have had some success in finding postings about advantages and dis-advantages to some of these models, but the comparisons were heavily weighted. I know this is a "loaded" forum for G-Wagens, but some help would be greatly appreciated. Price, millage and condition do weigh heavily on the decision but I need to narrow it down to the specific model.
I ask for advice from those who have been "knee-deep" in mud, bills, stories, and decisions of thier own.
Thank you very much for any help or advice you have.
__________________
Jarrett
1996 Dodge Stratus
G-Wagen (Hoping Santa will be nice this year)
I've owned LRs (Defender, Disco, RR, SeriesIIA) and now the 460G. Trust me. A series Land Rover is not even in the same ballpark in any way shape or form as the W460 G-wagen. If you want a quaint and quirky glorified tractor with sheet metal, go for the Series rig. A comparison to a Defender would be more to the point, but you don't seem to be going that way. I saw it expressed really nicely by a LR buddy of mine a week or so ago. "It's the only car I ever bought that came with 100 friends as standard equipment" - the Series LR crowd is a great group of people in general and it's for this reason alone that it took me over a year to come to terms with parting with my old 109" SW.
I have no direct experience with the FJ40 cruiser, but a buddy who owned one had more than his share of engine problems, rust, and general breakage. The '40 is a little better than the Series rig, but still a very dated design with some definite weak points. If you want a tolerable daily driver that can do some off-roading when the mood strikes you, the Toy is okay. But then, they range from stock beauties to fully tricked and modified. You haven't given any info on which end of the spectrum you tend towards. Tons of aftermarket parts for this one, and you'll need a lot of them.
If you want one single vehicle to cover the widest spectrum of uses from daily commuting, to a night on the town, to getting you out of off-road situations a sane person has no business being in, then the G is the vehicle to choose.
And nothing beats a Jeep for blending in with the highschoolers at the mall.
Folks around here will know I'm the last guy to push something just 'cause I have one. It really depends on what you want it for.
Thanks for the input. This is where the decision gets as clear as mud. I would like some...
Thanks for the input. This is where the decision gets as clear as mud. I would like something to take me off the beaten path, but I am not into serious rock-crawling as the FJ-40's seem to be. Landies prove thier off-roading very nicely as well as the G's.
For curising the streets, the G seems to be the way to go. Jeeps are affordable and parts are very reasonable. I am not brand loyal but looking for one.
All of my possibilites will turn heads but quality, overall durability and longevity of life weigh heavily on my decision. I had a full size pickup and that did not suit my current needs (someday I will need to haul a full cord of wood, but for now it's just sailing gear).
From what I have found, ex-military vehicles have great service records and low miles leading to a longer life. I want a bargain (as we all do) that will keep me going (preferably happy) for a long time. I am not affluent enough to even think of new, but fun can come in my price range.
Initial invenstment is what I am looking for. I want something that I can use for many years without the hassle of rebuilds and having to dump coin into refits. I have searched the classifieds all over the net but now it's time to focus that search.
Again, thanks for the reply and any more info would be great.
Well NOTHING is goin to take abuse and not need some type of repair or maint. You are talking about 20 year old vehicles too. Just about anything you buy is going to need something immediately.
For overall long term durability the G is tough to beat. One look at the frame underneath tells the story. Take a look at Daves G, nearly 300k miles on it now. I can say that it is still a very nice truck.
I'm not sure where you are going to find military surplus G-wagens. They do exist but not in this country. Before you get any crazy ideas about importation check the links at clubgwagen.com
If you want something that is capable and durable off road AND is a good road car, the G is nearly impossible to beat, especially when compared to a CJ, Series, or FJ-40. Anything can be made into an awesome off-road rig. Very few go both ways.
The G is going to cost you more initially. The lowest I have seen one is $10k. Most are 15-20k, in fact I just bought an '84 with 100k miles in that very range.
....quality, overall durability and longevity of life weigh heavily on my decision......I want something that I can use for many years without the hassle of rebuilds and having to dump coin into refits....
Those are the very things that set the G apart from all others in your list. You'll pay a little more up front and take a little more time looking to find just the one for you (at least here in the US where there aren't a ton to choose from), but if you maintain it by the book, and with some guidance from folks around here, the darned thing will run for ever.
With the G you get a lot of things in the factory package that others go to great lengths to upgrade after the fact and only end up moving the weak link.
- Others galvanizy chassis or spray in Waxoyl. The G comes from teh factory with the chassis fully internally coated with parafin based rust proofing
- Others fit locking diffefrentials and uprated axles to get off-road ability and durability. The G comes with lockers fromthe factory and the rest of the driveline is engineered to support the loads those imply.
- Others swap engines to more relibale units with better power to achieve driveability. Stick to the W460 and you get super-common engine componenets that carry MB sedans into the many hundreds of thousands of miles with economic regularity. (280GE water pump $60, fuel injectors $25, etc)
Oh yeah, and Brent made a great comment about how anything can be built in to a phenomenal off-roader, and since you at least alluded to making some modifications, it needs to be said. If you want something to buy as a starting platform to BUILD a vehicle on, the G isn't the right one. Get a Jeep or an FJ. If you want to just buy it and drive it, get the G.
I'll throw in my biased input. I've owned an FJ-60, Defender 90 and a 300GE. I had nothing but problems with my Toyota, including several expensive carburetor rebuilds and rust on the tailgate, rocker panels, and lower door panels. By the time it was sputtering up its last mountain pass, I had had enough of the games and traded it in at the local Toyota/Subaru dealer for a one year prepaid lease on an Outback wagon (yes, I was that frustrated with the Land Cruiser - I just wanted to get rid of it). So, I'm not a big fan of the FJ series, nor of Japanese cars in general – I will never buy one. Compared to German vehicles, the fit and finish of older Japanese vehicles is terrible - cheap plastic everywhere, although my Suburban would give any vehicle a run for its money in the cheap-plastic-falling-apart-interior category. But the G can't tow a keelboat around like the Suburban, so it stays.
The D90 was fun to drive and had a lot of character, but the novelty wore off after a year or so. I bought it new in 1997 and probably had it at the dealer for niggling repairs at least once per month. I sold the D90 back to the dealer for $2,000 more than I paid for it in 1999 because I had a kid and needed a more practical vehicle. Even if I did not need a more practical vehicle for the family, I'm not sure I would have held onto the D90 after the warranty expired. I don't know a lot about the Series LR's. They are very cool, but very slow and primitive as Dave stated earlier.
I have absolutely no complaints about the G. Sure, I could have purchased a slightly used Disco or RR for the price I paid for it, and it took some up-front cash to get it up to shape, but now it runs perfectly and reliably and suits my needs. The fit and finish is excellent and typical of pre-1995 Mercedes vehicles. The thing is a tank. If you get a four door LWB, you can easily toss a Laser or FJ on top along with the mast, toss your gear in the back, and haul your teammates to regattas. You would have the coolest rig by far, which is an important part of the equation. The only down side to the G is the relatively high entry price into a vehicle that is a decade or more old, but I don't lose any sleep over my investment. Don’t let the potential repair costs of a Mercedes scare you – they are no more expensive that the repairs I have had to make to the various Japanese and American vehicles I have owned over the years.
A few weeks ago I listed my G for sale to raise some cash for my business, but I could not go through with it. The more I thought about it, the more I would miss the G and, after all, it's only a business. I worked out alternative funding anyway, but I forced myself to evaluate my need to keep a vehicle that I drive less than 3,000 miles annually. But since those miles are always driven with a smile on my face, in the end it was a no-brainer.
I think Dave and Brent have (as usual) hit the nail on the head. I went through the same dilemma as you when I went to buy my G. Though I had wanted one for years before I actually bought mine last year, I too was deciding between various TLCs (40, 70, or 80 series) and LRs (series or Defenders). Then this guy that didn't live far from where I used to live bought about 20 ex-MOD Defenders and was selling them for between CAD$2500-10000 and I thought to heck with the G dream, here is your chance, get one! Well after checking them out (10-15 years old at the time), they did have low kms but were in really poor condition. Yes, mil vehicles are maintained well and not driven much but they are driven to Hell and back and kept in service until they are more expensive to maintain than to replace, in others words until they are beaten to death. You must understand military vehicles, the ones that are sold as surplus have done combat duty, when they are too old for this they become homeland training and GP used vehicles until they have no life left in them.
TLCs are great but have terrible bodies for rust. Find a good rot-free one and you will pay for it. Add the price of two ARBs and axel upgrades to go with them and you are at the price of a G which was made for all of this.
I did own a CJ-7 for 1.5 years. Miserable years. You fix something, and soon enough it breaks again. Parts for these are possibly becoming hard to find and Jeep parts are quite expensive for what you get.
The initial price of a G is steeper (though they are coming down). The vehicles you will find in the US are generally very well taken care of because they were so rare and expensive for so long. Few owners bought them and couldn't afford to keep them maintained. I bought mine about 1 year ago and it has been a year of repairs, high bills, etc and the work isn't over yet but with each repair I know that it will be the last time I have to worry about it for the next 20 years in most cases. Remember, these rigs were built (by Germanic people) to be military vehicles and are therefore very simple to work on and extremely tough. Yes, parts can be expensive, but you don't need very many of them. Moreover, they are just so cool and rare.
Ultimately, it is a tough decision. The G will probably be your best choice for an all around vehicle: comfortable, reliable, and amazing off-road. The rest of your list are all good vehicles as well. Also keep in mind, contrary to what Dave mentioned, Gs are modifiable, most people just don't see a need. Some will life an inch or three to fit bigger tires and possibly add a winch, but seriously, this is about all you need (and then there is Chuque, different story altogether).
All the best of luck with your decision, check back with us when you make it, we all generally like to know how things are resolved for those who visit this space, G or no G. If I made it seem the G was better than the others, it is only because I am very happy with mine and wish to spread the joy...and well...of course I am a bit biased[:)].
I own a 1990230GE and have had it for aprox. 3 months. I own a 2000 Toyota 4 runner limited and have owned Jeeps, explorers and I have driven off road many Land rovers, modified jeeps and land cruisers. Nothing has come even close to the off road abilities of this very odd, underpowered, heavy German cube on wheels. My jaw dropped open as I followed a quad 4 honda atv up hills that I doubt I could have climbed up with ice picks and spiked boots. It was incredible to be so astonished and as I sit here the silly grin grows across my face just thinking about it! If you seek this level of "happy" don't buy anything without first trying a Gwagon.
Cheers
Peter (toronto)
but I forced myself to evaluate my need to keep a vehicle that I drive less than 3,000 miles annually. But since those miles are always driven with a smile on my face, in the end it was a no-brainer.
I appreciate all of the coments and advice on the choice I have in front of me. This was all sparked By a 300GD in my parking spot. Needless to say, I was not terribly upset about missing my spot. I inspected this machine to be later caught by the owner who seemed not to be upset at someone oogling his pride and joy. I had never seen Mercedes put out something so interesting before.
Getting the model number and the internet I soon found the G-Wagens and thier relative availability on the used market. After these many posts and interesting debate it is hard to find too many "cons" to the multitude of "pros" to G-wagen.
Now comes the fun part... finding the right one!
If you could give me any more advice that would greatly help me in my decisions I will forever be in debt (well, maybe just in debt for the 15-20k on the G, but you get the idea). Thank you again and I look forward to future postings.
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