G-Wagen desert performance - Benzworld.org

11-14-2001, 02:44 PM

Hello, Could those of you who have operated LWB 300GDs and 280GEs in deserts please send some feedback as to how they do under those conditions?I would imagine that the 300GD is quite a problem on terrain like sand rivers and dunes, but it would seem that the 280GE might do about as well as a Land Rover 110 with the 300Tdi (112HP, 195ft/lb torque@1800 rpm)..Any comments, feedback, or real world experience appreciated.--Jim Laurel Seattle, WA

11-14-2001, 04:04 PM

Hi Jim,I have been to the Sahara desert with my 300GD (SWB) a number of times, travelling right across the dunes for seven to ten days with a payload of about 1600 pounds.On my first trip, the original 5-speed GETRAG gearbox was still fitted, which I found completely inadequate for the heavy terrain due to its very long first and second gear. Nevertheless the G performed relatively well - to the surprise of everyone in the group (including myself). On return, we fitted a military gearbox and 8.25 R 16 tires in order to be better prepared for the next trip. Those modifications proved to be exactly the right choice - the G tackled even the highest of dunes in first high or second low and did not get stuck once. The engine, btw, is still the first one -with about 300k mls- and has maybe 75 or 80 of the original 88 bhp left in it.What I found was, that far more important then horsepower are your driving technic and your tires. You avoid steering and keep the momentum goinÂ´ - together with a set of tires that withstand low pressure well, even the 300 GD gets you everywhere. I suppose an automatic gearbox would make a difference again and is superior to a manual.I would recommend, to keep the rear difflock engaged at all times while traversing dunes - in case you get into a critical situation where two wheels lift off the ground you can avoid a rollover by giving full throttle and countersteer.Do avoid to open any of the filler caps for oil, brake fluid etc. while driving in the desert. Before you know it, that fine sand gets everywhere and could cause major damage.Best of luck - frank

11-14-2001, 09:59 PM

Hi Frank Is that military gearbox from a military G? Does it fit exactly to the engine and drive shaft? 5 speed too? Where did you find it? It sounds interesting. And about the tires, which pressure do you often use in the desert? on the original steel rims? sorry for the ton of questions, but i'm interested in sand adventures. ThanksCarlos

11-14-2001, 11:07 PM

Frank, Thanks for the comments. I spent some time last December driving at the edge of the Sahara, near the Algerian border, in Wadi Rum in February, then in the Thar (Rajasthan) in April. This was part of a long overland trip I did with my family. We drove the whole route (40,000km over 11 months) in my 1997 Camel Discovery 300tdi without a single vehicle failure.I'm trying to get an idea of how the 300GE and 300GD fare in the sand as compared to a known quantity, my Tdi Disco. Iâ€™ve compiled the numbers below to compare the 3 different vehicles Iâ€™m considering as an expedition vehicle for trips in the Americas.I was surprised to note how heavy the Discovery is in comparison to the LWB G-Wagens, especially since the Discovery has a wheelbase of 100â€?, as opposed to the LWB W460, which I believe is around 112â€?. Where is all that weight coming from, especially since there should be a net savings due to the use of aluminum body panels? Mine must be quite a bit heavier still, since in full Camel trim, it includes a lot of extra equipment such as a full roll cage with integrated rack bolted to it through the roof, skid plates fore and aft, bull bar, winch, etc.Anyway, looking at the numbers, it would seem that I should be able to expect more or less the same ( and probably a little better) dynamic performance from a 300GE LWB as the Discovery 300tdi.The G Wagens sure are easier to come by than NAS 110s, and I'm sure are much better, ergonomically. Also, though I have never had a serious problem with any of my Rovers, I grew up with Mercedes cars and know how reliable and well-designed they are first hand.Questions for you 300GE owners: 1) What kind of fuel economy are you seeing on your mixed city/highway loops?2) How much range are you getting on a single tank?3) Will the W460 300GE run on regular unleaded?Regards to all, --Jim LaurelHere are the numbers...300GD LWB Power: 65kw @ 4400rpm Torque: 172nm @ 2400rpm. Kerb weight: 2055kg.Discovery (300tdi) Power: 83kw @ 4,000rpm Torque: 265nm @ 1800rpm Kerb weight: 2100kg300GE LWB Power: 115kw @ 5250rpm Torque: 226nm @ 4250rpm Kerb Weight: 2065kgNAS Defender 110 Power: 134kw @ 4750rpm Torque: 308nm @ 3250rpm Kerb Weight: 2200kg So, : I have been to the Sahara desert with my 300GD (SWB) a number of times, travelling right across the dunes for seven to ten days with a payload of about 1600 pounds.: On my first trip, the original 5-speed GETRAG gearbox was still fitted, which I found completely inadequate for the heavy terrain due to its very long first and second gear. Nevertheless the G performed relatively well - to the surprise of everyone in the group (including myself). : On return, we fitted a military gearbox and 8.25 R 16 tires in order to be better prepared for the next trip. Those modifications proved to be exactly the right choice - the G tackled even the highest of dunes in first high or second low and did not get stuck once. The engine, btw, is still the first one -with about 300k mls- and has maybe 75 or 80 of the original 88 bhp left in it.: What I found was, that far more important then horsepower are your driving technic and your tires. You avoid steering and keep the momentum goinÂ´ - together with a set of tires that withstand low pressure well, even the 300 GD gets you everywhere. I suppose an automatic gearbox would make a difference again and is superior to a manual.: I would recommend, to keep the rear difflock engaged at all times while traversing dunes - in case you get into a critical situation where two wheels lift off the ground you can avoid a rollover by giving full throttle and countersteer.: Do avoid to open any of the filler caps for oil, brake fluid etc. while driving in the desert. Before you know it, that fine sand gets everywhere and could cause major damage.: Best of luck - frank :

11-14-2001, 11:37 PM

<center><img src="http://www.mb-g.de/gdaten/datenbilder/getriebe_1.jpg"></center>Hello Carlos,If you want to know more about this gearbox, please have a look at http://www.mb-g.de under 'datenbank', 'getriebe-umbau bei OM617 4-gang nach 5-gang 711.616'http://www.mb-g.de/gdaten/thread.php?id=6You will need a shorter drive-shaft, which, unfortunately, is very expensive. In fact, I paid as much for the gearbox as for the shaft. This gearbox that I'm fitting was originated from a Unimog model. It was only used for testing in the Graz factory. I believe I was very lucky to find one... @Frank, Have you moved to Ireland again? Many G-reetingsGreetings from Belgium, Frank.: Hi Frank : Is that military gearbox from a military G? Does it fit exactly to the engine and drive shaft? 5 speed too? Where did you find it? : It sounds interesting. : And about the tires, which pressure do you often use in the desert? on the original steel rims? : sorry for the ton of questions, but i'm interested in sand adventures. Thanks: Carlos <ul><li><a href="http://www.mb-g.de/gdaten/thread.php?id=6">711.116 gearbox</a></ul>

11-15-2001, 01:07 AM

: Hi Frank : Is that military gearbox from a military G? Does it fit exactly to the engine and drive shaft? 5 speed too? Where did you find it?It is from the military G, the Wolf. YouÂ´ll find almost the same gearbox in T 1 vans 207-410. Beware though - those ones do not have the same "wading ability". 5 speed with 6,17 in first and 1,0 in fifth. Bolts straight to the engine (with the right clutch and pressure plate) but the driveshaft needs to be shortened. No need to buy an expensive new one as frank.be did.: It sounds interesting. : And about the tires, which pressure do you often use in the desert? on the original steel rims?Typically 1,2 - 1,5 bar but you could go as low as 0,8 with decent tires (tubelees of course) on the original steel rims 5,5 or 6". frank: sorry for the ton of questions, but i'm interested in sand adventures. Thanks: Carlos

11-15-2001, 01:19 AM

Hi again,you are probably working in PSI, sorry. Here are the appropriate figures: 17 - 21 and 11,5 respectively.frank : : And about the tires, which pressure do you often use in the desert? on the original steel rims?: Typically 1,2 - 1,5 bar but you could go as low as 0,8 : with decent tires (tubelees of course) on the original steel rims 5,5 or 6". frank

11-15-2001, 05:01 AM

What is a T1 van? : : Hi Frank : : Is that military gearbox from a military G? Does it fit exactly to the engine and drive shaft? 5 speed too? Where did you find it?: It is from the military G, the Wolf. YouÂ´ll find almost the same gearbox in T 1 vans 207-410. Beware though - those ones do not have the same "wading ability". 5 speed with 6,17 in first and 1,0 in fifth. Bolts straight to the engine (with the right clutch and pressure plate) but the driveshaft needs to be shortened. No need to buy an expensive new one as frank.be did.: : It sounds interesting. : : And about the tires, which pressure do you often use in the desert? on the original steel rims?: Typically 1,2 - 1,5 bar but you could go as low as 0,8 : with decent tires (tubelees of course) on the original steel rims 5,5 or 6". frank: : sorry for the ton of questions, but i'm interested in sand adventures. Thanks: : Carlos

11-15-2001, 07:54 AM

My figures for my LWB W460 G is ~5,600+ lbs, or about 2,550 Kg. Put in fuel and supplies and occupants, and you're easily over 6,000 lbs or 2,700 Kg.

11-15-2001, 08:01 AM

: What is a T1 van?Models 207,208,209,210,307,308,309,310,407,408,409,410 as being built from 1977 - 1995 - frank: : : : Hi Frank : : : Is that military gearbox from a military G? Does it fit exactly to the engine and drive shaft? 5 speed too? Where did you find it?: : It is from the military G, the Wolf. YouÂ´ll find almost the same gearbox in T 1 vans 207-410. Beware though - those ones do not have the same "wading ability". 5 speed with 6,17 in first and 1,0 in fifth. Bolts straight to the engine (with the right clutch and pressure plate) but the driveshaft needs to be shortened. No need to buy an expensive new one as frank.be did.: : : It sounds interesting. : : : And about the tires, which pressure do you often use in the desert? on the original steel rims?: : Typically 1,2 - 1,5 bar but you could go as low as 0,8 : : with decent tires (tubelees of course) on the original steel rims 5,5 or 6". frank: : : sorry for the ton of questions, but i'm interested in sand adventures. Thanks: : : Carlos