Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

Universal Joints

3K views 12 replies 0 participants last post by  Dave G. 
G
#1 ·
All I can say is, Bill at Drive Train Industries.....<p>YOU DA MAN!<p>I picked up my U-joints today, these are not just something that will fit, not just a subst*tute. These are the u-joints from the OEM supplier to Steyer Puch, exactly as fitted to my G at the factory in 1980! Same joint, same numbers and strengthening ribs in the FORGED spider, same circlips, and same right-angle zirk fitting included. Absolutely fabulous. I don't resent the $94 US each they charged me for a minute. Heck, I was so thrilled, I bought a set of SK metric flare nut wrenches at the same time! :^)<p>Travis at Europa had told me that:<br>A- He had never seen a G drive shaft with circlip-retained U-joints like I have.<br>B- The U-joint was not available as a separate part.<br>C- The front driveshaft was the replacement part I'd need to order for $1100, give or take $50.<p>This is not a knock on Travis, or Europa, just an encouraging word to BE PERSISTANT! :^)<p>If anyone out there needs a U-joint replaced and is lucky enough to have easily serviceable ones like I do, I highly recommend:<p>Drive Train Industries<br>3301 Brighton Blvd.<br>Denver, CO 80216<br>Ph: (303) 292-1100<p>The part number listed on my DTI invoice is: GWB287.10<p>DTI got the U-joints from:<br>Machine Service Inc.<br>1000 Ashwaubenon St.<br>Green Bay, WI 54304<p>And MSI got them from:<br>GWB Gelenkwellenbau N.A.<br>Greenville, SC 29607<p>The following numbers are on the GWB sticker on the box:<br>O/NO,: 806<br>7 287 10 06 00 400<br>0000028658/0004<p>And it looks like GWB is part of the Spicer companies.<p>Dave's a happy boy, and his G will soon be 4wd capable once again!<p>-Dave G.<p>PS- This information will be available by searching for "U-joint" in the archives at the USGwagen Yahoo group, and will also be included in a tech article on propeller shaft service at:<br>http://www.clubgwagen.com/gtech/index.html as soon as I finish the work and upload the article.<br><ul><li><a href="http://www.clubgwagen.com/gtech/index.html ">G-tech Pages</a></ul><p>
 
See less See more
G
#2 ·
Given that most parts places never have any listing for GWagens [and GWagen, Inc., is usually the only firm that has our part nos], how did you manage to track down such a specific (OEM) part in this country (USA)? In other words, did you have to get the part nos. off of your originals and then track down a supplier; or did you chance upon this company and, miraculously, they had a listing for GWagen parts; or did they call around until they found distributors who knew what parts you needed?<br><br><p>
 
G
#3 ·
"...how did you manage to track down such a specific (OEM) part in this country (USA) ?....."<p>Partly, I got lucky.<p>When I had the shafts balanced at DTI I asked if they could get U-joints, in case I ever needed them. At that time, they told me, "I think there's a company in Wisconsin that could probably get them."<p>So when I needed one, I first tried Napa, then got "the news" from Europa, then tried maybe the biggest drive line company in the USA, Six-States Distributors. All came up empty , and I was feeling pretty hopeless. With nothing to loose, I gave DTI a shot at it.<p>I gave Bill all the markings that were on the spider of the old part, plus the overall dimensions of a 30mm cap diameter, and 82mm across the caps, and asked him to try and find a replacement. He called me back the next day saying he'd found the manufaturer. He said they told him my drive shaft was NLA, having been superseeded (my guess is by the one with staked-in u-joints), but that they still had the u-joints available (5 in stock). I asked him to send me two. One to use now, and one to keep. My old one is probably still good as a trail spare. Bill placed the order for me last week and said he'd call me when they were in.<p>I got a call this afternoon, but was still skeptical enough to bring the old U-joint with me when I went down to DTI after work. Man, was I geeked beyond what any reasonable human being should be when I discovered that they were not just compatable, but the EXACT oem joint. But that last part is chalked up to a little luck, clean livin', and the good folks at DTI. :^)))<p>-Dave G.<br><br><p>
 
G
#4 ·
<br>The only difference you will find between the Mercedes part and the Spidan part, is the absence of the mercedes logo somewhere...<p>One set includes one CV-joint (of course!), 2 x 80 grams MoS-grease, Rubber hose, two span-rings and a new circlip.<p>Producer: <br>Spidan (= Hardy Spicer = Löbro = GKN-group)<p>Normal version: 460-type: 0.022690<br>ABS version: 463-type: 0.022711<p>I don't know any dealer in USA but that shouldn't be a problem, just let a search-engine do its job...<p>Greetings from Belgium.<br>Frank<br><p>
 
G
#5 ·
: <br>: The only difference you will find between the Mercedes part and the Spidan part, is the absence of the mercedes logo somewhere...<p>: One set includes one CV-joint (of course!), 2 x 80 grams MoS-grease, Rubber hose, two span-rings and a new circlip.<p><br>Frank,<p>You're confusing the CV Joint in the front axle with the Universal Joint on the drive shaft. Dave is referring to the later.<br><p>
 
G
#6 ·
Slip Joint Curiosity

Hello Dave,<p>I'm glad to hear you found the universal joints for the early 460 chassis G. <p>I'm a little curious about the slip joint problems the 460 chassis G has. If the driveshafts are not lubricated regularly (or the fitting is faulty), the slip joints have excess wear and cause the majority of problems on the front driveshaft, most notably the outrageous vibrations. Has anyone found a replacement slip joints?<p>It seems with the ability to replace the U-joints (Thanks Dave!), that all remains is to replace the slip joint and balance the shaft to have a reconditioned part.<p>Regards,<br>Jason<br><p>
 
G
#7 ·
Re: Slip Joint Curiosity

Jason,<p>I haven't looked into the slip joints. Mine are in great shape and very well maintained by PO's so I haven't had a need. I wasn't aware they were such a problem. My vibration problems went away when I got the shafts properly aligned and balanced.<br>( http://www.clubgwagen.com/gtech/shafts/main.html )<p>In any case, I'd think that replacing the slip joint would be tantamount to building a new drive shaft (cutting, aligning, welding, balancing), and I'd probably call Six States. They offered to build me a custom drive shaft for about half of the cost of a new MB part.<p>From what I hear, most of the G drive shafts will require machine shop work to even replace a U-joint, due to the fact that they're staked in place, not held with circlips as my early one is. And even if you could get them out by machining away the staking, I'm not sure there'd be room to machine a circlip groove for future servicability, or if you'd be forced to have the new joint staked in as well. Any thoughts along these lines?<p>-Dave G.<br><p>
 
G
#8 ·
Grease questions

Hey Jason,<p>Maybe you can help with something I've been thinking about lately. I think the U joints and slip joints in the G drive shaft are kind of a special application for lubricant.<p>1- They want a lube that is good in high-pressure, high impact, low-travel situations. This indicates a grease similar to what's used in CV joints. The black stuff with high molybdenum and sulfer content.<p>2- The proximity to the exhaust components of especially the front and center shafts means that you want a lube that will stay contant and in place at very high temperatures. Most CV joint lubes aren't very temperature stable, and you get pushed toward something like a disc-brake wheel bearing grease. But the wheel bearing greases are mainly for high-speed rolling applications, not the limited-motion, high impact life the U-joints and slip joints see.<p>So I'm in a bit of a quandry. For now I just use whatever I have in the grease gun (a hi-temp synthetic) and hope that shooting them all at every oil change (3000 miles working out to about once a month), and pulling the slip joints apart once a year for cleaning, keeps them happy. But I really would like to find a greaes that meets all the needs of the application.<p>Any thoughts?<p>Also, when I did a wheel and swivel bearing service on my G, I was very impressed with the design. Each bearing set existing in it's own more or less closed environment with it's own lubricant. It seems the grease in the steering knuckle (called a Universal Joint Housing in the MB manuals) serves only to keep the seals lubricated and to emulsify any contaminants that get past the ball seal before they can get to other bearings where they might cause damage.<p>In my truck, the UJH was filled with a creamy tan colored grease. This stiff looks like a great material for the job and I'd like to replace it. but I haven't been able to find anything similar locally. Can you tell me what it is, or what product I might find locally would be best in that application?<p>Thanks for your help!<p>All the best,<br>-Dave G.<br><p>
 
G
#9 ·
Sorry for the confusion.<p>I was talking about the universal joints in the "propeller shafts" attached to the transfer case. This nomenclature stuff is tough to keep straight.<p>A CV joint is nothing more than a specialized type of universal joint. Even some of the components of the two carry the same name, but have considerably different roles (the "spider" for example). And to top it off, the Mercedes Workshop Manual refers to the shafts that spin inside the axle casings as "drive shafts" and the housing that surrounds the CV joint as the "universal joint housing".<p>What are mere mortals to do? :^)))<p>I should have been more specific and used the proper term "propeller shaft" for the component in which I was replacing the universal joints. I plan to change the name of the article on the G-tech page dealing with this subject from it's existing "Drive Shaft Balancing" to a more appropriate "Propeller Shaft Service" when I update the article with the U-joint info.<p>Thanks for the great information on CV joints. I'm undecided about whether I wish to pursue a US source for these. Only because the main motivation for doing so would be that I had a need to replace one...And I hope not to encounter such a need! :^)<p>All the Best,<br>-Dave G.<br><p>
 
G
#10 ·
: You're confusing the CV Joint in the front axle with the Universal Joint on the drive shaft. Dave is referring to the later.<p>Yes, I was mistaking...sorry for that...<p>But then this story is not very remarkable. Here in Belgium there are some companies who make a complete new axle for about 500-700 USD. Most of them use GKN parts, for instance the sliding part in the middle is coated with RILSAN(self-lubricating powdercoating), the same as Mercedes uses. The main difference is the type of welding between the separate parts: MB uses cold-welding and most driveshaftbuilders use normal welding. You can see the difference right away. Cold-welded pieces have a very clear seem in between.<p>Another advantage these builders have, is that you can exchange the "spider" piece. That's why I think the axle we are talking about isn't an original MB axle. MB always presses the whole thing in place and secures it through deformation, without the use of circlips.<br>Or maybe this axle has been through a rebuild process before (and have only the axle-ends been renewed with a version that alows the spiders to be replaced).<p>The long life of a drive shaft depends on regular greasing, and not hit rocks...<p>Greetings from Belgium,<p>Frank<p> <p><p><br><p>
 
G
#11 ·
Re: Grease questions

There's only one grease (that I know off) that will do the job extremely well: <p>Nulon L80<br>Especially made for use in normal and salt water conditions, it will NOT mingle with water. Temperature range from -35°C to 140°C. It keeps sticky, makes long threads, but still capable for high and low speed applications. Contains lithium and PTFE. NLGI class 2.<br>It looks as red as ATF-oil.<p><br>I use this instead of MoS grease.<p>Greetings,<br>Frank<p>: Hey Jason,<p>: Maybe you can help with something I've been thinking about lately. I think the U joints and slip joints in the G drive shaft are kind of a special application for lubricant.<p>: 1- They want a lube that is good in high-pressure, high impact, low-travel situations. This indicates a grease similar to what's used in CV joints. The black stuff with high molybdenum and sulfer content.<p>: 2- The proximity to the exhaust components of especially the front and center shafts means that you want a lube that will stay contant and in place at very high temperatures. Most CV joint lubes aren't very temperature stable, and you get pushed toward something like a disc-brake wheel bearing grease. But the wheel bearing greases are mainly for high-speed rolling applications, not the limited-motion, high impact life the U-joints and slip joints see.<p>: So I'm in a bit of a quandry. For now I just use whatever I have in the grease gun (a hi-temp synthetic) and hope that shooting them all at every oil change (3000 miles working out to about once a month), and pulling the slip joints apart once a year for cleaning, keeps them happy. But I really would like to find a greaes that meets all the needs of the application.<p>: Any thoughts?<p>: Also, when I did a wheel and swivel bearing service on my G, I was very impressed with the design. Each bearing set existing in it's own more or less closed environment with it's own lubricant. It seems the grease in the steering knuckle (called a Universal Joint Housing in the MB manuals) serves only to keep the seals lubricated and to emulsify any contaminants that get past the ball seal before they can get to other bearings where they might cause damage.<p>: In my truck, the UJH was filled with a creamy tan colored grease. This stiff looks like a great material for the job and I'd like to replace it. but I haven't been able to find anything similar locally. Can you tell me what it is, or what product I might find locally would be best in that application?<p>: Thanks for your help!<p>: All the best,<br>: -Dave G.<p><br><br><p>
 
G
#12 ·
If you are talking about cv Joints<br>Where can you get them where your at?<br>I would like to buy some.<p>: The only difference you will find between the Mercedes part and the Spidan part, is the absence of the mercedes logo somewhere...<p>: One set includes one CV-joint (of course!), 2 x 80 grams MoS-grease, Rubber hose, two span-rings and a new circlip.<p>: Producer: <br>: Spidan (= Hardy Spicer = Löbro = GKN-group)<p>: Normal version: 460-type: 0.022690<br>: ABS version: 463-type: 0.022711<p>: I don't know any dealer in USA but that shouldn't be a problem, just let a search-engine do its job...<p>: Greetings from Belgium.<br>: Frank<p><br><p>
 
G
#13 ·
".....maybe this axle [prop shaft] has been through a rebuild process before ...."<p>It's possible, Frank. The truck has a long history before my ownership. It was originally sold in Saudi Arabia. The propeller shafts may have been rebuilt. But if it's true, then ALL THREE were rebuilt in the same manner. They all have circlip-retained U-joints.<p>All three shafts are also of GWB manufacture, having those letters cast into the flanges. However, the universal joints on the small center prop shaft are different from the ones on the front and rear shafts. The ones on the center shaft have the zerk fitting sticking out the end of the bearing cap, rather than coming out of the center of the spider like the U-joints on the other two shafts do.<p>Curious-er and curious-er, as they say! :^)<p>Thanks for your help,<br>-Dave G.<br><p>
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top