3 grand for front end bearings? front cv mishaps? am I doing the right thing??
Hi Folks,
Thanks for all your previous help, input as to buying a G wagon. After travelling from New York to Dayton, Ohio, to Florida and looking at 4 (driving 3), I found what i believe to be a nice example of a good 240 LWD. 6 cyl gas engine, stromburg carb, all systems work, mileage about 70k ( I do believe this to be correct by the interior, tightness of the front end and chassis, etc.
I have faithfully been reading the forum every day, just to pick up some tidbits here and there.
I noticed on the Jamisons post yesterday, one of the replys was" the first thing you will need to count on is a front end bearing service of 3 to 5 k".
why is this? how long are these bearings good for, and how can you tell if they are going bad. if there are no leaks, squeaks, or shimmy, i would assume all is well? do they notoriously go out?
why so expensive to rebuild?
also, on another post there seemed much confusion as to a new set of cv joints.
Now i know I am not going to go down to my local greasemonkey and get this thing fixed, or pop into pepboys for a part, etc.
BUT, I should be able to keep this thing up with time and resources?
here is my situation: I have a good Porsche mechanic, and there is a good Mercedes "only" mechanic locally that works on the old stuff.
while not rich, I can afford fixes should they need to be done (I put over 27k into a 1964 land rover that is worth perhaps 15k[B)])
I do not get discourged easily with cars, having an older 911, i know about the "temperament" of some vehicles. I have an older studebaker and enjoy the "hunt" of a needed part (No repo market for the "studes).
BUT, I still have haunting memories of a Saab Sonnet I purchased in college, the thing sat for months while i would try to find a right part (cv joints to be exact), i acquired a collection of every one except the ones i needed. I sold it for scrap.
I am looking to replace my rover. I do not need a dd, i want a "fun" wagon to take my kids to their lacrosse games, and the family skiing and camping, etc.
I enjoy a challenge, but don't want another reason to make (what is left) of my hair to fall out.
I mean it is a mercedes, right? we are not talking about the reliability of a 62 Jag???
please, someone, reassure me![:D]
RE: 3 grand for front end bearings? front cv mishaps? am I doing the right thing??
Don’t be too worried about front wheel bearings. Admittedly they are a weak link on the 460 G wagon ( weaker than say an old FJ landcruiser) but mine have done 125k and are still tight and not due for repair just yet and I have been running an offset that works out at the same as a 1 inch spacer with wider 31 10.5 15s.
Repair is quite straightforward. There is a great article on doing it on www.clubgwagen.com I bought all the bearings for my truck for about $50 in the UK and they were high quality Japanese NTN brand so $3k seems way over the top.
If there is no appreciable play they can be left till some develops. Any noticeable play, rumbling or knocking on lock (CV trouble) requires attention and the quicker the better.
The build quality is way better than Land Rover – you don’t need to strengthen stuff to stop it falling off – like you say it’s a Mercedes.
You can do the work yourself or give it to any competent Mercedes mechanic – the good thing about 460 G is that its totally mechanical and can constantly be repaired with no nasty expensive electronics to go bad.
RE: 3 grand for front end bearings? front cv mishaps? am I doing the right thing??
Having today just finished removal, resurface, and installation of my front rotors, I've been working on a theory as to why the front G bearings are prone to wear out.
Here's my theory:
In an effort to improve the overall turning radius and axle strength, it appears the MB engineers used an unusual approach to reduce the distance (or turning radius) from the swivel-pin axis to the wheel. The G axle design has no spindle, and the wheel bearings are effectively installed sort of backwards from a typical 4x4 such as a Land Rover or Toyota. What I mean is the outer bearing races are installed in the swivel housing, and not in the hub, and vice versa for the inner races and rollers.
This design apparently allows the inner bearing to be very close to the CV joint, thus reducing the radius and improving performance and strength all around.
Now the drawback is that without a spindle, it is not a "full-floating" hub design. A full-floating design completely frees the axle shaft stub so that it carries no weight at all, but only rotational forces from the differential. In the G, which is not full-floating, the axle stub shaft is now also carying the vehicle weight load, along with various steering forces, which probably cause the bearings to be subjected to more complex loads, which are likely highly dependent upon assembly tolerances. If these tolerances are kept exactly correct, all should work well as designed. But if the bearing assembly gets loose even a small amount, I would expect there to be loading on those bearings which would effectively skew the alignment far outside the bearing's design capabilities. This wouldn't be nearly as likely in a full-floating design where the bearings could pretty much flop around loose, like in a Land Rover, yet still remain straight becuase there is no rotational force applied, but only the vehicle's weight.
RE: 3 grand for front end bearings? front cv mishaps? am I doing the right thing??
Once any vehicle gets to be 20-25 years old I think a certain amount of possibly expensive maintainance is to be expected. The front wheel bearings are a weak link, if you consider a 80-100k miles on a set weak. CV's are a little tricky to source but they are out there, I know, I bought a set about 18 months ago. They are not cheap though, $500 for a pair is about what I paid, and they had to come from Germany. That isn't to say most will need CV's at that point. I had one bad one and was going to deep gears and big tires. Changing them for reliability sake was my choice. The bearings can be had from more than one source. The MB bearings are sometimes a better quality and always higher priced. The seals I would get from MB. I have heard that some generic seals are single lipped and the MB versions are tripple lipped for better sealing. At worst you are looking at $500-600 for the MB sourced bearing/seal parts. Labor is where the big money comes in. It is a solid 10 hours to do the bearing job and probably another couple to swap CV's. Depending on the labor rate...you can do the math there.
On my 280 I did front and rear axles with new gears bearings seals etc. I also had to remove the intake manifold and replace some rotted rubber hoses that were messing up the idle etc. I had an ignition box fail after 20 years and 100k plus miles. I now have an impending trans rebuild (5 speed). Generally though the truck is solid and runs great. I have no qualms about taking it way off road.
The trucks are very durable and reliable. There will likely be some issues just due to age and use though. Once sorted I think you can expect legendary MB durability. You just never know on a vehicle this old.
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