Welcome to the Forum! We've had some interesting discussion in the past regarding engine swapping and rebuilds. I pulled up some documents from the 'Search' section of the forum; they should help advise you on which other parts you need, plus it should answer other questions you might have.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1212615&posts=5

Hipine's rebuild (great tips on engine swapping).
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1203715&posts=26

this one is good.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1204663&posts=7

A different evaluation of after engine swap
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1202447&posts=13

Various Diesel engine swaps into G's.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1198007&posts=7

Turbo for 300GD
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1186811&posts=6

I could go on and on, but if you go to the search portion and type in "engine rebuild", you'll end up with tons of threads. I pulled only a few that I felt were relevant to your swap.

 

Most run in serious overheating problems sooner or later. I think, in Norway this swap is made quite often, probably you will find one, who has experience with it, when done right, you need parts from a G350 etc.
Most I know, quit it and went to a stronger G Wagen.

 

I purchased a 300GD with the transplanted 5-cyl turbo diesel earlier this year. It is a great car. Fun to drive and dare I say fast? Anyway what I have heard from others is that when you do the transplant try to have the old 123 carcas handy for various parts that you don't initially think of but will be searching for later.

If you like, I will be happy to take some photos of my engine for you to use as a reference.

Mark []

 

Not much....

You'll want to have the flywheel from the 617A stay with it as it's balanced to the motor.

Swap the engine mounting arms, oil cooler lines, and power steering lines from your 617 onto the new motor.

A larger radiator is nice. The rad from a 280GE fits right in next to your oil cooler and has a little more capacity. I can't say whether the 280's rad is enough or not yet though, 'cause my swap's not done. Best bet of all would be to have a custom rad made, but Idon't have the $1,000 US that would cost, so I'm going to try with the 280rad. Here's a bit on rad core design (and other good info) that will help if you go that route.

http://www.jagsthatrun.com/V8-chapters/V8-DatsunZ-Cooling-System.pdf

YOu should actually have quite an easy time of it, swapping only the motor, and starting with a 300GD.

Good luck, and let us know how you make out.

Oh yeah, the G IS left had drive I presume? It's tough to work the turbo in when all the clutch/brake/accelerator/steering stuff is fighting for the space over on that side of the car.

-Dave G.

 

The flywheel of the 617A is too small for the G clutch assembly. Thus youre stuck with the less beefier w123 clutch. The G clutch is 23cm across (I think) while the w123 one is 21 cm. Probably not a huge problem but if you really wanted to eliminate as many weak chains as possible...

TH: Are you sure you're not talking about the 603? I can not remember any of the numerous OM617A swaps ever running in to cooling problems or needing parts from a 350.

 

Why are you guys talking about a clutch, BTW?

I have an automatic, remember ?

Seems like the job'll cost me a bit more than I calculated at first.
With a new 2 1/2" exhaust system (ready made for the STT turbo variant), new engine, shipping and labor (estimated at 15 hours from the workshop) the entire rebuild should cost me just a shade under NOK 30000 ($4000).

Does the labor time estimate look all right, or should I calculate with more hours here ?

Johan-Kr

 

The clutch problem was more of a general input on the flywheel issue.

As for cutting costs it depends on how much you can do yourself. A 2.5 or 3" exhaust should be fairly easy to build yourself. You could buy the bendy parts that go over the tank and weld the rest out of pipes from Mekonomen or whatever.

I guess 15 hours is a good estimate if the workshop has calculated every little bolt and adjustment, but do you need them to do everything? If you team up with someone mechanically inclined you could get the workshop to bolt the new engine on and then you could do all the fiddly stuff yourself. I think the estimated 15 hours is at least 50% fumbling with wires and adjusting stuff where its hard to reach.

Obviously it all depends on how much you are willing to do yourself and if you have the tools to do it.

 

Unfortunately, I don't have the facilites or tools to do much of the work myself, so it'll have to be the shop. [V]
On the other hand - As they are very familiar with the Geländewagen, doesn't charge much per hour and just a 30 min drive away, I find it's a good idea to support them, so they're there for me if I need them later... The time estimate was a max, so they may very well use less time.

I've just ordered the engine, so I'll have to get back to you with the results. [^]

Johan-Kristian

 

Just for the record, I was talking about the flywheel for the automatic.

I think 15 hrs is a decent labor estimate for doing just the engine swap into a 300GD.

Just informationally speaking...
Tj, you're not "stuck" with any flywheel/clutch when putting the 617A in the g with a manual transmission. You just use the clutch and flywheel from the 300GD. Matter of fact, that's about the ONLY option, since the factory only ever spit out a very small handful of manual 617As. Some kind of Dutch consolate cars or something. I think Frank found one, but generally speaking if you want a manual with the 617A, you're using the 300GD clutch and flywheel setup. Don't even THINK about the 240D clutch. It'll never handle the weight of the G.

-Dave G.

 

One more maybe....

If you have air con....

The factory compressor mounting on the motors from W123 won't fit in a LHD G (maybe not RHDeither, I don't know) so if you have air con, and want to keep it, you'll need some custom bracketry to fit a sanden-type compressor up above the turbo inlet.

Are they going to keep the G air filter for you? I sure want to try to get it done that way. I know it can be fit, but lots of swap shops would rather take the easy way out and leave the W123 air cleaner setup in there. It does fit under the hood of the G and is an easier way out than custom fabbing a nice pipe to go from G filter to turbo inlet. Many also take a "middle of the road" approach and use the G filter with a corrugated flex pipe to the turbo inlet.

Send us a pic when it's done!

-Dave

 

RE: One more maybe....

I was just a tad too late in getting a complete 123 with AC for a cheaper price than what I'm paying for this engine. (The car was too rusty to go through approval). The engine had more miles on it than this, but I was very interested in the AC. Perhaps just as well, since it won't fit []

I'm planning to use the G air filter, if at all possible.

The workshop is an army division that also does civilian work. They know their G, and they dont charge an arm and a leg either. [] I believe it's their first turbo conversion, though...

I will try to get some decent pics for you when it's done.

Here's a pic of the car as it is now:

It's in quite nice condition for a 19 year old car, with only a few spots of surface rust on the body. The frame is free of rust.

The previous owner has ony used it for city driving, so the lockers are stuck and won't engage. [V] I guess I need to apply judicious amounts of brute force here []

Johan-Kr

 

RE: One more maybe....

Fenalaar - 8/8/2005 12:02 PM
...The previous owner has ony used it for city driving, so the lockers are stuck and won't engage. ...

As long as they're not working at all, I'd probably pull the master and slave units off and blank off the holes in the axles. While it's it in for the motor swap you can get the locker cylinders rebuilt. If they haven't been used, it's a cinch they haven't been maintained, and you probably have some rust in the bores. Better to just get them serviced and back to right. A shortcut method would be to first flush the hydraulic fluid, then pull the slaves off the axles and see if pulling the levers gets the slaves to move. If not, pull the cylinders for rebuild, if so, then you might have a sleeve frozen in the axle and that would be a tricky fix (but not likely that).

Nice looking truck.

-Dave G.

 

RE: One more maybe....

Hipine - 8/8/2005 7:53 AM

Many also take a "middle of the road" approach and use the G filter with a corrugated flex pipe to the turbo inlet.

Send us a pic when it's done!

-Dave

Dave!
Shame on you. How could you call my badass flex tube "middle of the road"?! Your conversion better end up flawless buddy....I'm watching you palio........like a hawk.
Steve"Hawkvision" Smith

 

RE: One more maybe....

stevegsmith - 8/8/2005 3:22 PM

....Shame on you. How could you call my badass flex tube "middle of the road"?! Your conversion better end up flawless buddy....I'm watching you palio........like a hawk...

[]

Hey, I said "middle of the road", not "bottom of the barrel"! No shame in the corrugated pipe! You got a guilty conscience about some other skeletons in that closet?[]

You're way ahead of me, man, and have my ultimate respect because....YOU'RE DRIVING IT! And I'm still paying $50 a tank for the priviledge of eeking out 12 mpg., hoping one day to follow in your footsteps. []

-Dave G.

 

RE: One more maybe....

Hipine - 8/9/2005 8:55 PM

As long as they're not working at all, I'd probably pull the master and slave units off and blank off the holes in the axles. While it's it in for the motor swap you can get the locker cylinders rebuilt. If they haven't been used, it's a cinch they haven't been maintained, and you probably have some rust in the bores. Better to just get them serviced and back to right. A shortcut method would be to first flush the hydraulic fluid, then pull the slaves off the axles and see if pulling the levers gets the slaves to move. If not, pull the cylinders for rebuild, if so, then you might have a sleeve frozen in the axle and that would be a tricky fix (but not likely that).

Nice looking truck.

-Dave G.

The lockers aren't needed for on-road use, so they're not a priority. They probably haven't worked for the last 4-5 years, so they can probably wait a little longer []

I think I'll ask my brother for help with the lockers. He's an instrument tech in the army, so he has access to a lathe and all neccessary tools. At least I can save a little money [^] After all, I've fixed his PC for free several times, when his stepdaughter has filled it up with spyware and other junk...

Johan-Kr

 

RE: One more maybe....

You got me...damn skeletons. I actually do wish I had some better alternative for piping. The stuff works great but I would have preferred black for the OEM (OME) look. This fix was definately a head scratcher though. I considered having a fabshop make up something tubular and faking a more OEM look. Then I checked with the almighty McMaster Carr, got tired of thinking about it and realized I could spend $20 and be driving in a day. Also, there is a little embarassment surrounding that crudy looking air cleaner housing. I'm working on it.
Look forward to seeing your progress....in person.
Regards,
Steve

 

RE: One more maybe....

You got me...damn skeletons. I actually do wish I had some better alternative for piping. The stuff works great but I would have preferred black for the OEM (OME) look. This fix was definately a head scratcher though. I considered having a fabshop make up something tubular and faking a more OEM look. Then I checked with the almighty McMaster Carr, got tired of thinking about it and realized I could spend $20 and be driving in a day. Also, there is a little embarassment surrounding that crudy looking air cleaner housing. I'm working on it.
Look forward to seeing your progress....in person.
Regards,
Steve

 

A 617 turbo will not overheat with a clean
280 radiator. Temperature in Montreal has been
over 30 deg. celsius for mere than a month.
I have driven in the city and many hyway miles
without a fan or oil cooler...thermostat removed
from oil filt housing...and it does NOT overheat.
The only time temp. rises is on low speed upgrades
when motor is working hard and there is little
airflow through rad. I have an electric fan as
a backup that i rarely use.
The air filter housing from the sedan has the
advantage of readily available air filters that
are much less costly, it also has the desirable
oil seperator.
Warren

 

All most excelent points from a most knowledgable fellow

Thanks Warren! Really puts my mind at ease on the radiator front. Your points on the practicality of the 123 oil cleaner are very good ones indeed as well. Especially if the truck doesn't often venture into severly dusty climes.

Thanks for all your help!

-Dave G.

 

The air filter on a stock turbo automobile motor is excellent and should clear the hood no problem. The filter element itself is very easy to get and is much larger than the somewhat whimpy 300d 240d filter. It will handle any dusty condition without a problem. Maximum protection. The best over engineering. It is going in my truck.

-Dai

 

Hi all,
one more question for you all.
Just seen a 460 in the German e-bay that has the Turbo Diesel Transplant in it. It also uses the original Auto Transmission from the 123 ?????Question: is that Transmission tuff enough? to stand up in the 460. Has anyone the same conversion?
I want to swap engine and transmission to a Diesel in my 230 GE (Auto), and happends to have a spare Turbo Diesel with Auto Transmission from a 123 Station Wagon.[][?]

 

ELRUBIO - 12/17/2005 7:07 AM
I want to swap engine and transmission to a Diesel in my 230 GE (Auto), and happends to have a spare Turbo Diesel with Auto Transmission from a 123 Station Wagon.[][?]

It is easyer to swap OM 617 into a 280GE than 230GE.
The OM 617 and the 280 engine are both "vertical" and use same bellhousing (gearboxes) and same mounts in the frame.
When I swapped OM 617 to my 230GE I had to cout out the old seats from the frame and weld the old fashioned 617 seats to the frame.
You also need G specific engine mounts between frame and engine and same setup of radiator/oilcooler as found in 300GD and 280GE.
Some other post here covers how to adjust sedan sump and other 123 issues for use in G

 

hello ,
well id like to know if a if 1990 300g to a 617a swap
is do able and the problems that could arise?
allso were is a good place to buy the 617a motor?
louis

 

"You'll want to have the flywheel from the 617A stay with it as it's balanced to the motor".

"The flywheel of the 617A is too small for the G clutch assembly. Thus youre stuck with the less beefier w123 clutch. The G clutch is 23cm across (I think) while the w123 one is 21 cm. Probably not a huge problem but if you really wanted to eliminate as many weak chains as possible..."

"Just informationally speaking...
Tj, you're not "stuck" with any flywheel/clutch when putting the 617A in the g with a manual transmission. You just use the clutch and flywheel from the 300GD. Matter of fact, that's about the ONLY option, since the factory only ever spit out a very small handful of manual 617As. Some kind of Dutch consolate cars or something. I think Frank found one, but generally speaking if you want a manual with the 617A, you're using the 300GD clutch and flywheel setup. Don't even THINK about the 240D clutch. It'll never handle the weight of the G"

I'm sorry, I'm a little lost here.
When mating a OM617a engine to a 300GD 5sp gearbox, what do you do regarding engine flywheel mounting?

From the last quote, when using the 300GD flywheel and clutch assembly, wouldn't you run into balancing issues?

Last, since om617(a) and om603(a) are externally balanced engines, but how about later 290 (cdi) engines? All externally balanced?

thanks for your input,

Bram

 

From what I've understood from other topics is that you can take both your 617 and 617a flywheels to a machine shop familiar with engine building and have the 617 flywheel rebalanced for the 617a engine using the 617a flywheel as example.

With this you will still use the 617 flywheel on the 617a, but it will be balanced to the ' new' engine.

You will be left however with the 617 engine without (matching) flywheel. Will be hard to get rid off.

Bram