Mercedes Madness - Sat. Aug. 3, 2013, Anaheim CA. - Event Info - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-16-2013, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Scoot View Post
I'm going to weigh in on this in what will probably be seen as an unpopular position with some of you.

I think that Mercedes Benz (via the Classic Center) has no place in sponsoring an event held at Hooters. Period, end of story. While Hooters may want to appear "family friendly", it's not. It caters to a client base that is one step higher functioning that those of a "titty bar". It degrades and objectifies women.

Are there others who are like-minded on this topic?

Scott
To each their own i guess, but we thank you for voicing your concerns as everybody is entitled to their own point of view, Fletcher Jones as well as the Classic Center both obtained corporate approval prior to sponsoring this event.

1.) Rollnnn 2005 C230k W203
2.) DON KING 2005 CLK500 W209
3.) MikeSSw203 2005 C230k W203
4.) Xeno 2009 CLS550 W219
5.) Hypekills187 2009 w204
6.) c2xbenzo 2011 E350 W212
7.) Scratchyhalo1 2008 E350 W211
8.) Rick Lien 2005 W163
9.) jreC230 2005 C230k CL203
10.) Manila Ice Ice Baby 2008 C63 ///AMG
11.) MOsHpiTKinG 2006 E55 ///AMG
12.) jtecnik 2006 CLS 55
13.) 06SLK-Noob 2006 SLK280
14.) Sebastian925 2009 C350 W204
15.) MikeSSw203 2010 GLK350 X204
16.) MikeSSw203 2013 SMART 451
17.) Caleks 2005 C230 Kompressor W203
18.) MBZ300CD 1984 300CD C123
19.) Scratchyhalo's brother 2005 c230 w203
20.) Rockyj0e 1999 e320 w210
21.) Sam G 2011 C63 AMG
22.) KOPIERS 2014 w212
23.) Luke 2014 e 350
24.) LRC w124
25.) inspiredbenz 2003 e500 w211
26.) Andy 1992 mercedes Benz 500sl
27.) E-Dropped 2003 E500 W211
28.) siopaolover 1998 E320 W210
29.) custom100 2006 CLS55 W219
30.) C63 Guy 2009 C63 W204 (S/C widebody)
31.) SaphGreyC63 2012 C63 AMG
32.) Steve Bischel 2008 CLK-63 Black Series
33.) socalswagon 05 c240 ESTATE
34.) opala 2012 C63
35.) SD202 1996 C-280 Elegance
36.) sapphirexae 1996 SL Roadster R129
37.) LAMike240 2002 SL500 r129
38.) mrberte 2000 SL600 R129
39.) SL BRABUS (BenzWorld Undercover Moderator) 2002 BRABUS 5.8 SILVER ARROW R129
40.) Tam 2008 C350 w204
41.) TerryA 93 500E 040 Black
42.) dflamer 2012 C63 W204
43.) dflamer 2013 E63 W212
44.) metongka 1984 500 SEC W126
45.) MB24AMG 2005 E55 W211 AMG
46.) Jamesbong W211 e350
47.) lynns 2000 SL500
48.) LUIGI4 2000 SL500 R129
49.) SilverBlownW211 2004 E55 AMG W211
50.) GuppyC63 2008 w209 CLK63 Black Series
51.) BigBryPatriot 2009 E63 AMG
52.) vixen_w202 (club202.com) 1996 C280 W202
53.) bugzy 2013 VW GLI
54.) DTPMBZ 2009 E350 W211
55.) groove66 05 K-4 E55 / w210 e55 / 93 500E / 92 m119 v8
56.) JAEDEE 2008 E63 W211
57.) najiwan 2010 c300
58.) V to E55 05 W211 E55
59.) Chris 2005 e55 w211
60.) John 1998 SL600 R129
61.) dustondo 2009 CLK63 Black series
62.) jkiddd33 2001 CLK430 W208
63.) LosalPD 2013 SLS GT AMG
64.) kipper215 2004 E55 AMG W211
65.) vipedition 2010 E350 W212
66.) GratefulDog 1980 500SLC
67.) DADDY FAT SACKS 08 E350 W211
68.) oddomatik 1986 190E W201
69.) NateDizzog 2009/C350/w204

please register at: Mercedes Madness : Register Now!

Roland...

Last edited by Rollnnn; 07-16-2013 at 03:45 PM.
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-16-2013, 04:27 PM
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I wouldn't go that far and assume their entire client base is like that. I go and eat with friends or family probably once every 2 months. Pretty much go for good food, drinks & good times on game days. Staff is just icing on the cake. Would I still go if it was a dude serving us? Sure! I don't see it as degrading women.

From their site: ..::HOOTERS::..
Quote:
The Hooters Girl

Hooters is proud to have created a globally recognized icon. Obviously we’re talking about the owl in our logo. But in addition to that, the Hooters Girl has become a phenomenon of her own. Hooters Girls are the very essence of Hooters. Trained to excel in customer service, they provide the energy, charisma and engaging conversation that keep guests coming back. Much more than just a pretty face, Hooters girls have game. They’re intelligent and attentive – using their energy, experience and personalities to serve guests everywhere to live in the moment and take a break from the outside world.

Hooters is proud of the more than 300,000 Hooters alumnae who have grown into their own lives as mothers, wives, career-minded businesswomen and entrepreneurs, many becoming doctors, lawyers, authors, government officials and community leaders. Chances are you’ll see Hooters girls in your local community lending a hand to help some great organizations – from raising money for breast cancer research and recovery efforts after major storms to support for military families with the Hooters Operation Homefront partnership.
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-16-2013, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeSSw203 View Post
I wouldn't go that far and assume their entire client base is like that. I go and eat with friends or family probably once every 2 months. Pretty much go for good food, drinks & good times on game days. Staff is just icing on the cake. Would I still go if it was a dude serving us? Sure! I don't see it as degrading women.
I agree that it's not all black and white. And that all the guys in there aren't there just to look at boobs. And I think it's fine for women to sell their bodies as eye candy, I just want it treated honestly. I really don't think anyone believes that it is about OWLS.

The part I found most disturbing about my one lunch at a Hooters was the guys there, not the women. It was embarrassing.

It's fine for people to work at Hooters and to go to Hooters. In my opinion, it is not inclusive to have club events at Hooters, or to have Mercedes Benz sponsor events at Hooters.

Currently: 1967 250 SL, 1963 220Sb, 1965 300SE Lang, 1971 280SE parts car, 1972 Alfa GTV, 1965 Alfa Duetto, 1993 BMW R100R
Past: 1971 250 C, 1985 300 TD, 1967 250 S, 1968 280 S,1981 300 D, 1982 280CE, 3 Facel Vegas, Borgward Isabella Coupe, Alfa 2600 Sprint, Volvo P1900 (yes), numerous less interesting Volvos, ...
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-17-2013, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Scoot View Post
It's fine for people to work at Hooters and to go to Hooters. In my opinion, it is not inclusive to have club events at Hooters, or to have Mercedes Benz sponsor events at Hooters.
I agree with that statement and would like to add two points,
(a) Above all else I am grateful and appreciate anyone who makes an effort to organize MB specific events, we lag far behind other enthusiast groups in community gatherings and get-togethers for whatever reason, so we need more events like this and I know first hand it is not an easy or cheap or stress-free thing to do.
(b) Personally speaking, when I first read this post I thought it was a great idea until I read it was being held at Hooters. While I would never judge anyone else, I would myself not be willing to attend an event such as this given the venue, I feel it does not represent the marque nor the majority of it's owners, the two simply do not mesh or share any corporate philosophy. I don't fault MB, the Classic Center, the organizers or anyone else, it is a very SoCal thing to do and it's not easy to find willing venues, but if I were still living in the area I would have been ecstatic to attend if it were at any sort of more family-centric venue. I wanted to respond with my feelings because they existed when I first read the thread, not influenced by Scoot's post, and I know if the both of us feel this way then surely many others do as well that you will never hear from, they simply won't attend. My intention is simply to convey that a change of venue for next year may result in a classier atmosphere that would attract more of the classic vehicles and likely raise attendance. What if this were held on the grounds of a lovely public gardens, or a hotel property or even a classic diner like Norm's, Bob's Big Boy, Johnny Rockets, etc?

Major respect to the OP for being so considerate and understanding in the reply to Scoot. That speaks volumes about the class of the organizers that will surely shine through regardless. I wish you much success with the event even if it's not for some of us.

-Marrs

The Coupe Group (W111/112 coupes and cabs)official website
The Coupe Group on Facebook


"Too many people are working at jobs they hate, to buy things they don't particularly want, to impress people they don't even care about." --Dr. Deepak Chopra
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-17-2013, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by DirectLA View Post
I agree with that statement and would like to add two points,
(a) Above all else I am grateful and appreciate anyone who makes an effort to organize MB specific events...
(b) Personally speaking, when I first read this post I thought it was a great idea until I read it was being held at Hooters. While I would never judge anyone else, I would myself not be willing to attend an event such as this given the venue, I feel it does not represent ...
+1 well said

Currently: 1967 250 SL, 1963 220Sb, 1965 300SE Lang, 1971 280SE parts car, 1972 Alfa GTV, 1965 Alfa Duetto, 1993 BMW R100R
Past: 1971 250 C, 1985 300 TD, 1967 250 S, 1968 280 S,1981 300 D, 1982 280CE, 3 Facel Vegas, Borgward Isabella Coupe, Alfa 2600 Sprint, Volvo P1900 (yes), numerous less interesting Volvos, ...
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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-17-2013, 04:56 PM
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Again, thanks guys for the feedback.


DirectLA is spot on about the lack of MB specific events. Thats why we do this event once a year to give our fellow MB enthusiasts something to look forward to. Every year we ask ourselves should we do it or not. Then figure if we don't nobody else will and force ourselves to run with it.

Finding a willing venue with a large lot on a very limited budget, has always been an extremely difficult task in the past. I have been helping organize small and big MB events since 2007. In the past we had to purchase permits, even hire security, people had nothing to do after an hour just standing in a parking lot, also feedback about nothing to eat nearby, nowhere to grab a drink with our buddies, then hear restaurant wasn't staffed enough to handle the extra volume. It got to the point that we felt we were more of a thorn in the venues side for the extra hassles and trouble.

When we did our 1st Madness event, things couldn't have went any smoother for a change. Hooters management is top notch and was more than willing to help anyway possible. They would obtain any necessary permits, notify neighboring businesses about the parking situation. Make sure they are more than well staffed that day, organize free contests and donate many prize/certificates etc to raffle. One year they even scheduled one of their calender girls to work and take pics with anybody or any car if they wanted without us asking. They make us feel like they are just as excited for the event as we are. Anything we asked they are more than willing to make sure we are good and satisfied. They are an absolute pleasure to work with. For that reason we have continued to stay loyal and keep Hooters as the venue for the 3rd straight year. Without them and our other supporters we would not be able to keep this going.

Sure it may not be classiest atmosphere, but I personally wouldn't want it any other way. No charge to check out many different Mercedes, talk car stuff with fellow enthusiasts, make some new friends then catch up with some old ones over an ice cold beer or wings. Maybe free food and drinks would make it better, but highly doubt we can make that happpen lol.

Anywho, for those who may have 2nd thoughts about attending simply due to the venue being Hooters, I ask that you lower your standards for an hour or so for our humble event. If not your cup of tea, leave at anytime or find myself (Mike), Roland or Don to express any feedback, concerns, suggestions or anything. It truly is a great event for MB enthusiasts, events just for us MB guys are very rare and I'd hate for you to miss out without giving it a chance.
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-17-2013, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSSw203 View Post
Again, thanks guys for the feedback.

DirectLA is spot on about the lack of MB specific events. Thats why we do this event once a year to give our fellow MB enthusiasts something to look forward to. Every year we ask ourselves should we do it or not. Then figure if we don't nobody else will and force ourselves to run with it.

Finding a willing venue with a large lot on a very limited budget, has always been an extremely difficult task in the past. ...

... It truly is a great event for MB enthusiasts, events just for us MB guys are very rare and I'd hate for you to miss out without giving it a chance.
Also very well said. I'm even giving it a second thought. Thank you for elaborating on the issues in finding a venue. In case there is any confusion, my objection has never been about this event existing or the manner in which it is advertised. It has solely been with whether or not Mercedes should be a key sponsor of the event.

Currently: 1967 250 SL, 1963 220Sb, 1965 300SE Lang, 1971 280SE parts car, 1972 Alfa GTV, 1965 Alfa Duetto, 1993 BMW R100R
Past: 1971 250 C, 1985 300 TD, 1967 250 S, 1968 280 S,1981 300 D, 1982 280CE, 3 Facel Vegas, Borgward Isabella Coupe, Alfa 2600 Sprint, Volvo P1900 (yes), numerous less interesting Volvos, ...
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeSSw203 View Post

Anywho, for those who may have 2nd thoughts about attending simply due to the venue being Hooters, I ask that you lower your standards for an hour or so for our humble event. If not your cup of tea, leave at anytime or find myself (Mike), Roland or Don to express any feedback, concerns, suggestions or anything. It truly is a great event for MB enthusiasts, events just for us MB guys are very rare and I'd hate for you to miss out without giving it a chance.
Thanks from me too, I appreciate the thoughtful and lengthy reply, you certainly weren't under any obligation to provide that info to us. I will say that you have given me a new perspective, and something to think about. Again, good luck with the event and thanks for putting forth the effort involved for the good of the MB community.

-Marrs

The Coupe Group (W111/112 coupes and cabs)official website
The Coupe Group on Facebook


"Too many people are working at jobs they hate, to buy things they don't particularly want, to impress people they don't even care about." --Dr. Deepak Chopra
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-21-2013, 11:37 PM Thread Starter
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(Thread Starter)
1.) Rollnnn 2005 C230k W203
2.) DON KING 2005 CLK500 W209
3.) MikeSSw203 2005 C230k W203
4.) Xeno 2009 CLS550 W219
5.) Hypekills187 2009 w204
6.) c2xbenzo 2011 E350 W212
7.) Scratchyhalo1 2008 E350 W211
8.) Rick Lien 2005 W163
9.) jreC230 2005 C230k CL203
10.) Manila Ice Ice Baby 2008 C63 ///AMG
11.) MOsHpiTKinG 2006 E55 ///AMG
12.) jtecnik 2006 CLS 55
13.) 06SLK-Noob 2006 SLK280
14.) Sebastian925 2009 C350 W204
15.) MikeSSw203 2010 GLK350 X204
16.) MikeSSw203 2013 SMART 451
17.) Caleks 2005 C230 Kompressor W203
18.) MBZ300CD 1984 300CD C123
19.) Scratchyhalo's brother 2005 c230 w203
20.) Rockyj0e 1999 e320 w210
21.) Sam G 2011 C63 AMG
22.) KOPIERS 2014 w212
23.) Luke 2014 e 350
24.) LRC w124
25.) inspiredbenz 2003 e500 w211
26.) Andy 1992 mercedes Benz 500sl
27.) E-Dropped 2003 E500 W211
28.) siopaolover 1998 E320 W210
29.) custom100 2006 CLS55 W219
30.) C63 Guy 2009 C63 W204 (S/C widebody)
31.) SaphGreyC63 2012 C63 AMG
32.) Steve Bischel 2008 CLK-63 Black Series
33.) socalswagon 05 c240 ESTATE
34.) opala 2012 C63
35.) SD202 1996 C-280 Elegance
36.) sapphirexae 1996 SL Roadster R129
37.) LAMike240 2002 SL500 r129
38.) mrberte 2000 SL600 R129
39.) SL BRABUS (BenzWorld Undercover Moderator) 2002 BRABUS 5.8 SILVER ARROW R129
40.) Tam 2008 C350 w204
41.) TerryA 93 500E 040 Black
42.) dflamer 2012 C63 W204
43.) dflamer 2013 E63 W212
44.) metongka 1984 500 SEC W126
45.) MB24AMG 2005 E55 W211 AMG
46.) Jamesbong W211 e350
47.) lynns 2000 SL500
48.) LUIGI4 2000 SL500 R129
49.) SilverBlownW211 2004 E55 AMG W211
50.) GuppyC63 2008 w209 CLK63 Black Series
51.) BigBryPatriot 2009 E63 AMG
52.) vixen_w202 (club202.com) 1996 C280 W202
53.) bugzy 2013 VW GLI
54.) DTPMBZ 2009 E350 W211
55.) groove66 05 K-4 E55 / w210 e55 / 93 500E / 92 m119 v8
56.) JAEDEE 2008 E63 W211
57.) najiwan 2010 c300
58.) V to E55 05 W211 E55
59.) Chris 2005 e55 w211
60.) John 1998 SL600 R129
61.) dustondo 2009 CLK63 Black series
62.) jkiddd33 2001 CLK430 W208
63.) LosalPD 2013 SLS GT AMG
64.) kipper215 2004 E55 AMG W211
65.) vipedition 2010 E350 W212
66.) GratefulDog 1980 500SLC
67.) DADDY FAT SACKS 08 E350 W211
68.) oddomatik 1986 190E W201
69.) NateDizzog 2009/C350/w204
70.) glopez8716v 1987 190e 2.3-16v W201
71.) Smart Bob 08 smart 451 chassis
72.) Nader 08 Smart Cabriolet
73.) Larry 08 451 Smart Cabriolet
74.) obaran 2006 /CLK320CDI/w209
75.) mrbry16v 85 190e 16v w201
76.) Melanie 2012 Smart Passion
77.) AAAAAAL 2007 SLK 350
78.) Bob Harvey 1989 560SL
79.) THEBESTORNOTHING 2001/ E320/ W210
80.) deblane7803 1999 SLK230 R170
81.) bill madden 2013 smart fortwo brabus 451
82.) jta00r1 2004 sl55 r230
83.) William 500SL 1992 500SL
84.) Mach4 1985 380SL Diesel R107
85.) badbenzz 2008 CLK Black Series
86.) Airport Car 1983 / 300D Turbo / w123
87.) Dhamilton 1985 280 SL
88.) ecampbell Weistec clk black series
89.) Worker Not 2005 Smart 450 DIESEL
90.) C300S 6MT 2008 C300 W204
91.) llensart 1981 240D w123
92.) Havoc_Vulture w211 E350
93.) JackDaRippa 2013 E350 W212
94.) trooper6 1989 560SEC C126
95.) ff_emt 2002/clk430/w208
96.) EricWong529 1978 240D W123
97.) AMGMOB 2007 E63 W211
98.) jhuang811 1999/S320/W140

Don't forget to register at: Mercedes Madness : Register Now!

Roland...
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-23-2013, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Senior Member
 
Date registered: Jan 2008
Vehicle: 2005 C230 SS Kompressor
Location: In between LA and OC, southern Cali...
Posts: 456
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(Thread Starter)
1.) Rollnnn 2005 C230k W203
2.) DON KING 2005 CLK500 W209
3.) MikeSSw203 2005 C230k W203
4.) Xeno 2009 CLS550 W219
5.) Hypekills187 2009 w204
6.) c2xbenzo 2011 E350 W212
7.) Scratchyhalo1 2008 E350 W211
8.) Rick Lien 2005 W163
9.) jreC230 2005 C230k CL203
10.) Manila Ice Ice Baby 2008 C63 ///AMG
11.) MOsHpiTKinG 2006 E55 ///AMG
12.) jtecnik 2006 CLS 55
13.) 06SLK-Noob 2006 SLK280
14.) Sebastian925 2009 C350 W204
15.) MikeSSw203 2010 GLK350 X204
16.) MikeSSw203 2013 SMART 451
17.) Caleks 2005 C230 Kompressor W203
18.) MBZ300CD 1984 300CD C123
19.) Scratchyhalo's brother 2005 c230 w203
20.) Rockyj0e 1999 e320 w210
21.) Sam G 2011 C63 AMG
22.) KOPIERS 2014 w212
23.) Luke 2014 e 350
24.) LRC w124
25.) inspiredbenz 2003 e500 w211
26.) Andy 1992 mercedes Benz 500sl
27.) E-Dropped 2003 E500 W211
28.) siopaolover 1998 E320 W210
29.) custom100 2006 CLS55 W219
30.) C63 Guy 2009 C63 W204 (S/C widebody)
31.) SaphGreyC63 2012 C63 AMG
32.) Steve Bischel 2008 CLK-63 Black Series
33.) socalswagon 05 c240 ESTATE
34.) opala 2012 C63
35.) SD202 1996 C-280 Elegance
36.) sapphirexae 1996 SL Roadster R129
37.) LAMike240 2002 SL500 r129
38.) mrberte 2000 SL600 R129
39.) SL BRABUS (BenzWorld Undercover Moderator) 2002 BRABUS 5.8 SILVER ARROW R129
40.) Tam 2008 C350 w204
41.) TerryA 93 500E 040 Black
42.) dflamer 2012 C63 W204
43.) dflamer 2013 E63 W212
44.) metongka 1984 500 SEC W126
45.) MB24AMG 2005 E55 W211 AMG
46.) Jamesbong W211 e350
47.) lynns 2000 SL500
48.) LUIGI4 2000 SL500 R129
49.) SilverBlownW211 2004 E55 AMG W211
50.) GuppyC63 2008 w209 CLK63 Black Series
51.) BigBryPatriot 2009 E63 AMG
52.) vixen_w202 (club202.com) 1996 C280 W202
53.) bugzy 2013 VW GLI
54.) DTPMBZ 2009 E350 W211
55.) groove66 05 K-4 E55 / w210 e55 / 93 500E / 92 m119 v8
56.) JAEDEE 2008 E63 W211
57.) najiwan 2010 c300
58.) V to E55 05 W211 E55
59.) Chris 2005 e55 w211
60.) John 1998 SL600 R129
61.) dustondo 2009 CLK63 Black series
62.) jkiddd33 2001 CLK430 W208
63.) LosalPD 2013 SLS GT AMG
64.) kipper215 2004 E55 AMG W211
65.) vipedition 2010 E350 W212
66.) GratefulDog 1980 500SLC
67.) DADDY FAT SACKS 08 E350 W211
68.) oddomatik 1986 190E W201
69.) NateDizzog 2009/C350/w204
70.) glopez8716v 1987 190e 2.3-16v W201
71.) Smart Bob 08 smart 451 chassis
72.) Nader 08 Smart Cabriolet
73.) Larry 08 451 Smart Cabriolet
74.) obaran 2006 /CLK320CDI/w209
75.) mrbry16v 85 190e 16v w201
76.) Melanie 2012 Smart Passion
77.) AAAAAAL 2007 SLK 350
78.) Bob Harvey 1989 560SL
79.) THEBESTORNOTHING 2001/ E320/ W210
80.) deblane7803 1999 SLK230 R170
81.) bill madden 2013 smart fortwo brabus 451
82.) jta00r1 2004 sl55 r230
83.) William 500SL 1992 500SL
84.) Mach4 1985 380SL Diesel R107
85.) badbenzz 2008 CLK Black Series
86.) Airport Car 1983 / 300D Turbo / w123
87.) Dhamilton 1985 280 SL
88.) ecampbell Weistec clk black series
89.) Worker Not 2005 Smart 450 DIESEL
90.) C300S 6MT 2008 C300 W204
91.) llensart 1981 240D w123
92.) Havoc_Vulture w211 E350
93.) JackDaRippa 2013 E350 W212
94.) trooper6 1989 560SEC C126
95.) ff_emt 2002/clk430/w208
96.) EricWong529 1978 240D W123
97.) AMGMOB 2007 E63 W211
98.) jhuang811 1999/S320/W140
99.) o9w211 2009 E350 W211
100.) jonwhite99 85 500SEL AMG (W126)
101.) cgolden1701 1983 300TD W123
102.) Burt Court 2013 smart Passion
103.) SPIFFFS 2008 CLK63 AMG Black Series
104.) Jeremy cox 2009 Smart fortwo 451
105.) Jan cox 2008 Smart Fortwo 451
106.) thebenze 2003 C230 CL203
107.) XXDEVILZEROXX 2013 SMART
108.) Je Suis Moi 1997 SL500 R129
109.) Eman 1987 190E 2.3 16V W201
110.) dumped202 2009 c300 w204
111.) Bob Diaz 2009 Smart Car, Pure
112.) Smart Bob 08 smart Passion Coupe
113.) Lee Z 09 smart Pure

Roland...
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