ceramic clearcoat finish? - Mercedes-Benz Forum
 
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#1 (permalink) Old 12-21-2010, 12:30 AM
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Question ceramic clearcoat finish?

since introducing the ceramic clear coat system 2004 i wonder how these finishes have held up to other premium clear coat system or how they've held up as a whole? who has this clear coat on their cars?
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#2 (permalink) Old 12-25-2010, 04:06 AM
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What other premium clear coat systems are you trying to compare them too?
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#3 (permalink) Old 12-30-2010, 08:41 PM
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standox,who knows anything about this c.c.system?
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#4 (permalink) Old 01-03-2011, 05:43 PM
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I had both a ceramic clearcoat MB (2004 C230) and a non-ceramic clearcoat MB (2002 C230). The ceramic clear coat was better in every possibe way. I would say the pre-ceramic clearcoat would develop as much swirls in a month as a ceramic clear coat car develops in a year. In terms of rock chips, no contest. The pre-ceramic MB had hundreds of rock chiips in it's first year, the ceramic clearcoat MB had a small handfull of chips.

The only negative was the ability to polish the clearcoat. The non-ceramic clearcoat was very easy to polish, you can easily polish out swirls and minor defects using a mild polish, foam pad and orbital buffer. On the ceramic clearcoat, you would need something heavier duty. You can still use a foam pad, but you'll likely need to upgrade to a rotary buffer and a strong polish, not one with diminishing abbrasives like Meg's #83 DACP.

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#5 (permalink) Old 01-04-2011, 04:38 AM
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Working with PPG, BASF and Mercedes Benz, in Menzerna 2003 developed special polishes for use on PPG CeramiClear™ Clear Coat for removing scratches, swirls and paint defects

Beyond superior abrasives, Menzerna has pioneered the development of polishes designed specifically for the hard clear coats, like those used by General Motors on the Corvette and PPG CeramiClear™ Clear Coat being used by Mercedes Benz. Super Intensive and Nanotechnology Polish are currently used by Mercedes - Benz in Germany on their production line to remove swirls and over-spray incurred during the painting process.

A unique family of abrasives developed by Menzerna allows these polishes to remove defects, even on brand new paint finishes, with no loss of surface gloss and no micro-marring. The abrasives are just one factor in the equation; lubricants, solvents, emulsion and their carrier system will determine the actual functional ability of the polish
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#6 (permalink) Old 01-04-2011, 01:42 PM
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Agree that ceramic CC is far superior in protection to base CC, but also agree that is is much harder to achieve paint correction if the surface does get marred.

Can't even count the number of polishes I tried before I could find a good combo that worked on this surface. Like trying to polish stone with steel wool, until you find something that cuts but does not cut through you work your butt off to achieve any correction.

Still, it is a really hard finish, worth the other hassles IMO.

Nokiemon
2005 230 Kompressor SS
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#7 (permalink) Old 01-05-2011, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Essman View Post
Agree that ceramic CC is far superior in protection to base CC, but also agree that is is much harder to achieve paint correction if the surface does get marred.

Can't even count the number of polishes I tried before I could find a good combo that worked on this surface. Like trying to polish stone with steel wool, until you find something that cuts but does not cut through you work your butt off to achieve any correction.

Still, it is a really hard finish, worth the other hassles IMO.
Nanotechnology (ceramic particle) clear coats

DuPont's SupraShield™, PPG's Optech™ and PPG CeramiClear™ Clear Coat ™ the new, Nanotechnology ceramic clear coats being used by Mercedes-Benz

a) Menzerna’s polishes and compound
Super Intensive Polish (SIP), Power Finish (PO203S) and Nano Polish (106FF) these polishes contain nanotechnology ceramic particles, these micro diminishing abrasives are milled finer and much harder, and also contain a higher abrasive content, 7% were as the other polishes contain 3% abrasives

b) Lake County Manufacturing CCS Technology, German Polishing Pads Green Foam Pad, these pads removes 2000 grit sanding traces, swirls and paint defects with minimal or no surface dullness or haze. The diminishing abrasives allows these polishes to remove defects, even on brand new paint finishes, with no loss of surface gloss and no micro-marring

These products were specifically formulated to polish out any defects found on Nanotechnology ceramic clear coats, along with a high speed rotary polisher.

The newer, harder, scratch-resistant clear coats require longer polishing times to remove swirls, spots and defects. The longer you polish with conventional foam pads, the less effective they become because polish migrates below the working surface of the pad; the pad dries out. Collapsed Cell Structure technology solves this problem using strategic patterns of partially closed foam cells. These cells slow the rate of polish absorption, gradually releasing polish as needed by the operator. CCS pockets reduce surface tension, prevent pad skipping and allow the operator to run the pad flat on the working surface.

Both of these pads (German Green and the Orange Power Pad) are thermally reticulated, urethane foam with a 99% open cell structure especially developed for Nanotechnology paints. These foam pads provide ample surface contact to effectively work the paint.

The pockets are small so they don't affect the amount of foam continuously touching the paint during operation. Standard foam pads are flat-cut, CCS foam pads have the top edge rounded over because it prevents pads from snagging while working in tight spaces.

For most hard clear coats this combination will produce excellent results - Menzerna Super Intensive Polish PO91E on an Lake County (LC) Orange pad and / or (LC) Green foam pads
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#8 (permalink) Old 05-18-2011, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Essman View Post
Agree that ceramic CC is far superior in protection to base CC, but also agree that is is much harder to achieve paint correction if the surface does get marred.

Can't even count the number of polishes I tried before I could find a good combo that worked on this surface. Like trying to polish stone with steel wool, until you find something that cuts but does not cut through you work your butt off to achieve any correction.

Still, it is a really hard finish, worth the other hassles IMO.
What was the combo you found that worked for you on these surfaces?
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#9 (permalink) Old 05-18-2011, 10:01 AM
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I'm not the one who was asked.

However, a DA Polisher with Meguiar's Polishing Pad, and Meguiar's M135 has worked for me on removing swirls on my black SLK. I had tried 80 & 83 and didn't get good results.

M135 on the DA has worked for me several times. The only problem? I'm so lazy. Even doing it once a year to the entire car is unlikely for me. I think I'm down to doing the top surfaces of the car every other year, and the sides, the year in between.

Furthermore, I hate that in small areas you can't really polish well, like next to the license plate even with a smaller pad. I guess you're suppose to remove the license plate. Again, I'm lazy.

However, I do find M135 works nicely. Be careful with it ever by hand though, it seems like it leaves a dull finish if you do any touch up by hand and you will have to follow up.

With the DA though, the M135 seems to leave a very nice finish even without a follow up with another product.

Again, no guarantees, just some things I've observed.

2008 C300 Sport with P2 Package
2009 SLK 350 with P1 & Heating
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#10 (permalink) Old 05-18-2011, 10:52 AM
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What was the combo you found that worked for you on these surfaces?

TOGWT listed what I have found to be the most consistent product for this type of finish, the Menzerna line.

I use either SIP or PO203S with a Lake Country Green pad or Sonus yellow pad if I am using a rotary. Menzerna polishes seem to work better on this MB clear with the higher heat generated by the rotary as opposed to a DA, but that is just my opinion and preference.

I like to use PO85RD as opposed to 106FF with a blue or black pad because I think it finishes with a little more depth than 106. Top with Powerlock and you are good to go.

However, using a rotary on this type of finish is not everyone's cup of tea and does require some practice to master and still make good correction. Worse yet, you can toast the clear even thought it is very hard if you get too aggressive.

If using a DA, I have had pretty good luck with the Megs 105/205 twins. I also have the new Meguiars DA Microfiber system which really kicks butt with a DA on everything I have tried, but have not used it on the Benz since Menzerna does the job.

Nokiemon
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Last edited by Mark Essman; 05-18-2011 at 12:01 PM.
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