One, please don't take what I say as offensive, as this is not my intent.
1. Why do you think claying before washing is ok? You want as clean of a surface as possible to limit the amount of contaminants that get transferred to the clay. One little pebble that gets into the clay can put some very nasty clearcoat scratches into the paintwork. I guess I don't understand why you wouldn't simply wash and then clay to better prevent swirls in the paint.
2. You state that it is a waste to Polish and Wax everytime you wash, or detail, a car. Yes, I would agree with you. However, when you clay a car you remove the wax that may be on the paintwork. Hence, it needs to have a coat of wax put on again. This is what I believe others are having a problem with. You keep saying that you don't Wax every time because it doesn't need it, and if you didn't clay the wax off then you'd be right, but you have, so it needs to be waxed.
I guess I'm a little confused. You say you've been detailing cars for a long time but you're make some very novice missteps.
Good luck to ya. I hope you take this advice, I think you'll be impressed about your increased quality of work.
hey nutdotnet - don't even mess with him, he sent me a pm that clearly states he knows what he is doing... again it is just his rambling and he won't take any advice from anybody. Like I told him he is lucky he hasn't messed up somebody's car yet. He thinks he knows everything about detailing and the fact is he doesn't know shit from apple butter. He won't take advice, he won't listen to what anybody has to say. I seriously doubt if he even is a professional detailer he doesn't get any repeat business and if he does those are the ones he has to polish because he swirled them the last time he did it.
Cowboy, don’t underestimate the stupidity of the general public. There are plenty of bad ‘detailers’ out there. Someone sees that their car is generally cleaner and shinier right after a guy ‘details’ it and they get the mistaken impression he did a good job.
Cowboy, don’t underestimate the stupidity of the general public. There are plenty of bad ‘detailers’ out there. Someone sees that their car is generally cleaner and shinier right after a guy ‘details’ it and they get the mistaken impression he did a good job.
I wouldn't call that specific example stupidity, just lack of exposure to a true detail job. People are always astonished when a true detailer cleans a car, and I hear, "I didn't even know you could get rid of that!" quite often.
They just don't know! I mean, that's why they HIRED somebody, so hence why I think taking advantage of these people is clearly a terribly obvious example of unethical business.
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EuroLux:. Private Auto Detail
Portland, OR
I wouldn't call that specific example stupidity, just lack of exposure to a true detail job. People are always astonished when a true detailer cleans a car, and I hear, "I didn't even know you could get rid of that!" quite often.
They just don't know! I mean, that's why they HIRED somebody, so hence why I think taking advantage of these people is clearly a terribly obvious example of unethical business.
Right you are. There I go shooting from the hip again. However, I think most people hire someone simply because they don’t want to go to the effort.
Right you are. There I go shooting from the hip again. However, I think most people hire someone simply because they don’t want to go to the effort.
Oh heck yea, especially if they know their stuff. Honestly though, that is such a small fraction of people that I deal with, they usually think they have an idea of what to do - but they always explain to me a bunch of techniques that are quite harmful. It's quite comical, but it's completely understandable. I really see it as just that, they hired me, even if they know their stuff - they want to learn.
It's the people that have no interest in how you achieved the results that bother me, because you know that they won't notice the difference you have made nearly as easily as the people that are into it.
With that said though, it's easy to pick those people out. I stay away from clients like that. I am much more specialized in not only my procedures & products, but my choice in clients as well. Many people don't require the specialized service, even though they might not know the difference to begin with. It would definitely be a disservice to not turn some people down, for their good as well as my own.
Overall, it confuses people, considering I'm very inexpensive. I can remain very competitive, even with the local "migrant worker" shops that do shoddy work. I really should raise my prices to distinguish my service, but I'm more of a hobbyist - and it's not my main occupation. I just like what I do, but sometimes it's difficult to wrestle the amount of incoming customers with college, work, etc... I only do 1 car a week, and I usually skip 1 week a month.
Gotta make time for paintball and my own car...
Last edited by CharlesAFerg : 05-06-2008 at 10:23 PM.
One, please don't take what I say as offensive, as this is not my intent.
1. Why do you think claying before washing is ok? You want as clean of a surface as possible to limit the amount of contaminants that get transferred to the clay. One little pebble that gets into the clay can put some very nasty clearcoat scratches into the paintwork. I guess I don't understand why you wouldn't simply wash and then clay to better prevent swirls in the paint.
You will pick up contaminents whether you wash, rinse or not prior to using the clay bar. the clay id designed to "pick up" contaminents with it's sticky characteristics used in conjunction with the spray liquid that comes with the clay bar. that's why they tell you to continue to fold it over and "kneed" the clay to continue to have a fresh side of clay to work with. I'm not against washing or rinsing first before claying at all, I rinse off first regardless, but if the car is pretty clean to begin with I don't see the need for an all out washing. claying to me is for "spot duty". get the bug juice, tar, brake dust on lower panels, and other obvious things hanging off the paint. I don't use my clay bar like a towel and wipe down the whole car. that's petty because every inch of the car is not covered with 'sticky' contaminents. you mainly find these particles on the front end of the car, hood, front fenders, etc... that get the most wind and bugs.
Quote:
2. You state that it is a waste to Polish and Wax everytime you wash, or detail, a car. Yes, I would agree with you. However, when you clay a car you remove the wax that may be on the paintwork. Hence, it needs to have a coat of wax put on again.
It doesn't need it, but people prefer it for a little more shine. a
super-shine on a car is great when you need it(out on the town, car show, blind date, parked and never driven, etc...), but not for everyday driving. unless you got the $$ to throw away on your ride every week. go for it. no argument there.
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This is what I believe others are having a problem with. You keep saying that you don't Wax every time because it doesn't need it, and if you didn't clay the wax off then you'd be right, but you have, so it needs to be waxed.
I guess I'm a little confused. You say you've been detailing cars for a long time but you're make some very novice missteps.
Good luck to ya. I hope you take this advice, I think you'll be impressed about your increased quality of work.
I see. then I ask you to understand this, car polishes and wax have little to no UV protection. Any detailer worth his salt can tell you this. cars on average get washed at least once a week. washing off the acid rain particles alone "protects" your paint and the clearcoat. claying takes out the extra sticky dirt. I do everything other detailers do, I just don't do "as much" as they do, because my main objective is to get the paint clean, not shiny. although I will slather on the polish and wax IF the paint/clearcoat is just horrible. some prefer the polish everytime and I do those too. but I only polish/wax 4 times a year on my C280 and I make mine look as shiny if not shinier than the guys on here who polish/wax 10 times a month.
oh and you advice is good. I always liked learning. I hope you do too.
hey nutdotnet - don't even mess with him, he sent me a pm that clearly states he knows what he is doing... again it is just his rambling and he won't take any advice from anybody. Like I told him he is lucky he hasn't messed up somebody's car yet. He thinks he knows everything about detailing and the fact is he doesn't know shit from apple butter. He won't take advice, he won't listen to what anybody has to say. I seriously doubt if he even is a professional detailer he doesn't get any repeat business and if he does those are the ones he has to polish because he swirled them the last time he did it.
mess up a car? haha.. I can vomit on a paintjob and make it shine better than ANYTHYING you could ever do when it comes to detailing. get lost.
The reason it is dangerous is simple. The clay will become loaded, and dirt will no longer be safely 'cushioned between the maleable clay and the paint in the lubricant. This layer will become filled with dirt that is NOT embedded in the paint, and since it loads up so fast, the lubricant is no longer effective - so the dirt and contaminants are rubbing directly on the finish, causing marring and strong scratches.
May I ask for your detailed description of your claying procedure Benz Rider?
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Originally Posted by benz rider
You will pick up contaminents whether you wash, rinse or not prior to using the clay bar. the clay id designed to "pick up" contaminents with it's sticky characteristics used in conjunction with the spray liquid that comes with the clay bar. that's why they tell you to continue to fold it over and "kneed" the clay to continue to have a fresh side of clay to work with. I'm not against washing or rinsing first before claying at all, I rinse off first regardless, but if the car is pretty clean to begin with I don't see the need for an all out washing. claying to me is for "spot duty". get the bug juice, tar, brake dust on lower panels, and other obvious things hanging off the paint. I don't use my clay bar like a towel and wipe down the whole car. that's petty because every inch of the car is not covered with 'sticky' contaminents. you mainly find these particles on the front end of the car, hood, front fenders, etc... that get the most wind and bugs.
So, you're saying that washing and claying do the exact same thing? A clay bar is specifically designed to be used after washing to remove some debris that washing could not remove, called embedded contaminants. That is why you MUST wash first for this to be effective because the loose dirt, eve if you cannot see it, builds up. The procedure you have explained has never been used, and I've never even heard of any myths even remotely referring to this... Even the packaging of various claybar products defy your explanation. It is dangerous. Embedded vs free contaminants, that's the bottom line.
What is "the liquid that comes with the clay bar" you are referring to? I'd like to hear what you use and how you use it, and this is also referring to my question earlier about your exact procedures. It would be helpful to hear that whole process, in detail. Thx
Anyways,
I don't know who you talk to about polishing, but I did a single full compound with Menzerna Powergloss, Super intensive Polish, and then Nano Polish - all on my own BMW last summer. I haven't touched it since then, and I still have a nearly perfect finish (even under halogens) because I wax/seal it every 4 months on average, which isn't expensive at all. (All I'd need to do to repair any imperfections that may occur now is use a light polish like FP or another pass of nano with the rotary) The reason it got so bad is the PO never waxed it before I purchased it.
Really, if you do things right, you don't have to polish all the time, this is true. BUT, if the car has never been waxed or polished, it's unlikely if the car is over 5 years or even 3 years old that it will be clear of noticeable residue that even the amateur can distinguish. Although, it is up to the detailer/client decision regarding what action to take, but what is mandatory after a polish is a seal of some kind. This is the one factor that determines a freshly polished paint job that stays clear or not, and I must emphasize that this shouldn't be done every week, but about once every 4-6 months depending on climate product etc...
Yet, without wax, the cars finish is not slick, it has a low surface tension. This allows for anything to stick to it and remain. Whether it be mineral deposits, tree sap (Fkin worst, especially if it ages and completely dries) But with practically any type of paint protectant even SLIGHTLY present, it will repel and make these contaminants that much easier to remove, most of they time they just "pop" right off, because the bond to the paint isn't nearly as strong as it would have been on a bare surface. That's no understatement, it's hell on earth to remove some contaminants that have stained, etched, etc...
Overall, no need to polish and wax every week, just keep a small layer of protection, and you'll be good to go. (Heck, I didn't even waxd my car for 6 months during the crazy Oregon winter weather, which isn't even close to being a joke BTW, it's serious weather. I think I even waited 4 months to wash the thing. Yes, I got lazy and preoccupied with school, but my LSP prevailed.)
Last edited by CharlesAFerg : 05-08-2008 at 01:08 PM.
) But with practically any type of paint protectant even SLIGHTLY present, it will repel and make these contaminants that much easier to remove, most of they time they just "pop" right off, because the bond to the paint isn't nearly as strong as it would have been on a bare surface. That's no understatement, it's hell on earth to remove some contaminants that have stained, etched, etc...
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