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w211 new comand 2008/2009?

291K views 518 replies 71 participants last post by  alema 
#1 ·
Does anybody know anything about this new comand?

I've heard some rumours that it fits perfectly when you have older audio 20 cd installed! just plug and play, because it has internal AWG like audio 20cd and plugs are same also.





 
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#2 ·
I have not seen anyone having retrofitted the new NTG2.5 device but you are right that the wiring is at least pretty much the same as for the Audio 20 CD and this unit should fit better than for the others that use AGW.

You could have a look at the wiring diagrams and compare the connector pin assignments but it is very likely that all match.
 
#11 ·
hi, i m rick from malaysia
i am using a w211 (2003) and is fitted with comand aps. is able to play dvd, mp3.
it doesnt have phone or nav. Can any1 assure me if NTG 2.5 can be fitted easily?
The connector at the back

white - am/fm radio (probably antenna)
green -fakra dvd signal
blue - gps antenna
yellow - reverse camera
black square connector - FAKRA i/o
red - optic cable connector (I/O)

Can some1 please confirm the connections?

thank you

i m interested to upgrade to see if it works

please confirm if TV TUNER and IPOD ready is included in the COMAND??
 
#12 ·
The NTG2.5 COMAND is not easy to fit when you have Comand with an AGW. Your speaker wiring is at the rear, the radio tuner and the GPS too while all should be wired to the front. Of course possible but more work than you would have with a basic Audio 20 CD.

Do you already have the new Comand? How much did you pay for it?
 
#13 ·
i m in the final process to purchase it from some guys from Poland at the price of E1200.
Ya, i think you are right. I remember the speakers wiring is terminated from the rear. I also remember that there is only 1 single connector (fakra, black rectangle) which i connect to the comand APS, i upgraded it from APS50 previously. Now that i have seen the NTG 2.5, i m exicited and has found the seller.

The NTG2.5 has got AM/FM antenna and speakers wiriing which makes me feel is not as easy as plug n play as describe by the seller.

Can you please tell me what is a DIN connector? He claims i have to have this wire in order to work.

THe beautiful things about the ntg2.5 is that it has bluetooth for phone, SD Card, built in GPS with data in HDD,

DOes anyone know how many models are there for the NTG2.5?
I remember reading somewhere that some has built in TV tuner and IPOD ready as well
THat would be very Sweet and i think is worth the trouble to explore how to do the wiring. In Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia is hard to find good/experience installer for this kind of job. Most of them dare not take the risk and not adventurous enough to get into it.
Is my car and i m willing to learn from someone here who can help me!

Please respond, some1 who has materials or ideas or guide to fit NTG2.5 into my W211.
If ther is a manual or brieft wiring termination diagram, that would be of great help

Cheers
 
#14 ·
You should be able to purchase access to MB services and then download wiring diagrams. In Europe that would be this site:
Daimler AG - Service & Parts net

This NTG2.5 appears on several current models but the units are physically all a bit different.

It would not have TV tuner standard but I don't even remember if there was an option for the TV tuner and how would that be wired. iPod would be the same as on your current Comand.

DIN connector (or ISO connector) is the standard radio connector that you can find on most after market European radios and also on all older (but not ancient) European cars. If I remember right, NTG2.5 would not have the exact DIN/ISO connector but mostly equivalent pins (but not all).

Is the seller at eBay? Can you give pointers, the €1200 price sounds like the seller got it for free (one or the other way).
 
#17 ·
i have had the new COMAND APS (2008/09) NTG2.5 in hand. I want to replace this with existing comand aps. (I have replaced the current comand aps with Audio20 with cassette the other time, 2 years back) Now is it possible to replace with the latest Comand APS?

I am having W211 (MY2002)
Currently it has Comand APS with DVD/MP3, with CDC, no PHONE, no NAV, I believed the N93/1(Audio Gateway) is at the back trunk. SO my speakers wire terminations willbe at the back trunk.

(1) I need help on what is connected to the N93/1. How do i get the photo with indications of each connector?
(2) How do i know if my car is on NTG 1 or NTG 2.0 ?
(3) Does this make any differences for me to swap the new 2008/09 comand?
(4) Is there any additional cables/optic cable or wire hardness that I need to make it work?

Another words

I hope some1 can guide me with a step by step instruction on how to fix this unit in my car. Thank you very much

CHeers
 
#22 ·
Good luck with finding someone stupid enough buying this device from you. You got it for 1200 Euros despite everyone told you this most like won't work out and now you're trying to make more than a 100 % profit off of your misstep? Didn't you write earlier that you like to explore and learn and that 1200 Euros wouldn't be a problem? I guess your eyes were bigger than your wallet!
 
#20 ·
Hello
I m in need of help here.. Can we do somthing about retrofitting a NEW COMAND NTG2.5?
Since there is already an built in AGW in the new COMAND is there a way to make my existing AUDIO GATEWAY N93/1 to be slave instead of master? If this can be programmed then i do not need to extend the antenna and speakers wires from the back trunk to the front to the NEW COMAND. Is this possible?

I understand that in a MOST ring, only one device can be made master.
In my case currently, the AGW is the MASTER and my existing COMAND(old) is slave.

PLEASE HELP, i m sure there are some experts or great engineers here!

CHeers
 
#27 · (Edited)
Making rear AGW a MOST Slave



Hi Rick,
Wish you best of luck in getting this to work - I'd want to know too.

The AGW in the NTG1 system is the MOST master while the AGW in the BD0880 unit is built-in as you have rightly summarised. Was your NTG1 Command-APS factory installed or upgraded from Audio-20? If upgraded from Audio-20, then you can just as easily swap out the Becker Command-APS with the newer Melco BD0880 and leave the cable harness/AGW redundant.

I'm not sure why you'd want to utilize the rear AGW unless you have a H-K Logic7.

I've noticed that the BD-0880 has a set of jumpers in the rear, perhaps it can be set to be a slave and the AGW by-passed? Someone might be able to get you the pin-diagrams for the BD-0880 to see if this can be done.
 
#21 ·
I guess you could always explore the AGW coding options but even if you were able to make it a slave, I doubt the new Comand would be able to use the FM tuner from the rear instead of the integrated tuner.

Did you get it up and running otherwise? Perhaps better to just start rewiring the speakers, antenna etc.
 
#24 ·
no guys

dont worry... i have not even get the item yet.. it has been paid but is being sent by EMS.. probably will be here next mon/tue... i m very confident that it will work.
wont be selling it anyway... if i m serious to sell it off, it wont be in this forum anyway..

so mackhack, in actual fact, after taking some measurements, i found that my eyeball weights approximately 7.5 grams and measures approximately 24.7 millimeters in its anterior-to-posterior diameter BUT my wallet is pretty thick inside, it measures 100 X 125 X 25.7 mm.. at least the thickness is similar to my eyeball diameter.

I will post a step by step and pictorial guide to share once i have made it work

cheers
 
#28 ·
Has anyone figured out from EPC if the Sound amplifier is different for the new Comand? After a quick look I can find two parts that seem to be valid for 527 (Euro Comand) or 810. It is a bit difficult to read EPC when the same option code has been used for the old and the new Comand.

From the wiring diagrams I conclude that the NTG2.5 sound amplifier is a completely different part, it is even named differently. It could be simpler to replace the amplifier to avoid re-routing speaker wires but the radio antenna etc. would still have to be routed to the front.
 
#29 ·
hi MoonDragon67
Thanks for your comment.

maybe you could help me.
My car W211 MY2002 was originally fitted with somthing looks exactly like Audio 20 but it is not with CD instead with cassette. Is this consider Audio20?

If my Audio20 Cassette is similar to Audio20 CD, then I will do like you said, leave the AGW in truck redundant.

The reason I wanna use the AGW is because I tought this will safe me from extending the speakers wires and antenna wires to the NEW NTG2.5 COMAND/BD0880.

If you are right,
(1) does that means that I will still maintain the AGW as MOST master? and my NEW NTG2.5 COMAND (BD0880) as slave?
(2) I just ignore the speakers wiring connectors at the back of the NEW NTG2.5 COMAND?

If this is so, then it is sure gonna be much easier.

Please let me know ok?

Thanks
 
#31 ·
you are in unexplored territory here... there are a number of unknowns that will make the retrofit anywhere from difficult to impossible.. here they are..

1. the phone/vcs wiring currently runs to the MHI(and/or VCS) module in the trunk.. that will have to be extended all the way up to the radio for the built in bluetooth to work. There *is* a comfort telephony option on the NTG2.5 which is designed to fit the old system to the new one but even with SDS you will have no possible way to change it due to the fact that all NTG2.5 radios are SCN coded.

2. the amplifier takes the data from the AGW... the AGW gets controlled from the front unit. There is no way to make a 2.5 radio control an AGW because the 2.5 radio have the AGW actually built inside. the old AGW will need to be removed which will mean that the antenna leads for the radio will also need to be extended to the front.

3. The amplifier is probably not going to work with the NTG2.5 radio for MY 2003. you would have better luck if you have an 08 MY but my guess (and this is a guess) is that the MOST channel is going to be wrong and not work.. and its not programmable either. you have 2 choices.. get the newer amplifier and retrofit it as well or use the speaker outputs directly on the back of the deck.

4. The CAN messaging format is different between MY 2003 and MY 2008 and this is inportant for how things like the steering wheel controls and instrument cluster display work with the radio.

5. navi is in the back (if you have it) so the GPS antenna will also need to be extended to the front. and the navi processor removed as well.

6. all the extra stuff is going to involve additional modules.. TV tuner is seperate.. the cool ipod with the on-screen interface is a seperate module that costs about $600.

Like I said.. there is alot that is different and while I like to encourage people to DIY these sorts of projects this is honestly one where you are out of your depth. Im not trying to pick on you, just letting you know what you are up against.
 
#30 ·
You have had the Audio 20 CC unit in the car originally, not the Audio 20 CD. Audio 20 CC would use AGW equally as a Comand or Audio 50 APS and the tuner plus the audio amp and speaker wires then are at the trunk. This makes the old Comand retrofit easy but not the new NTG2.5 device.
 
#32 ·
Hi rob13572468
Thanks for the info.

Can you please tell me your opinion?
There is a individual who claim that he can built a cable hardness with proper connectors so that I unplug connectors from AGW. then insert into the female connector in his wire hardness. This then will be pull to the HU with the FAKRA connector that will just be plug n play.

As far as i know there are 6 connectors in AGW, if unplug all and extend to front it may sound workable, whats your opinion?

Also, if i were to fabricate this wire hardness, can some1 recommend where to purchase all the connectors and accessories??

Thanks
 
#37 ·
yes, this is exactly what would need to be done. I have been approaching the same conversion but for a 2006 ML which is easier because the AGW is built into the older command. The only thing that the he did not mention is that you would also need an additional harness for the telephone wiring from the back to the front as well...
 
#35 ·
HI Moondragon,,
Thank you so much for your comment/input. Is good to know that you are just over the causeway..

In fact, i have already installed a COMAND APS with DVD/MP3. It was a very installation previously, now i m trying to be more adventurous.. i have got the BD0880 in hand (now i found there is BZ9880 which comes with 6DVD Changer built in) and is sitting here starring at me doing nothing. I am doing research and hoping to find some expert here to help me out.

Following are my my uncertainties, can some one please reply by item number accordingly will be of great help.

(1) My old comand is taken out, there is only one connector in the dashboard in front, black square 4 pins, (MOST IN/OUT) P1=T.30, P2T.31, P3=wakeup & P4=reserved.

(2) At the Audio Gateway (N93/1), I found 6 connectors, only able to figure out a 4 nos,
Connector #4 i have center and sub woofer speakers, I can extend
a) Sub 1
b) Sub 2
c) Center
d) FR
e) RR
f) FL
g) RL
I can extend d,e,f & g to the BD0880 but how about a & b?
(this is where i think moondragon suggest HK Logic 7) but i will take this as a 2nd step

Question is now
a) SUB woofer
b) Center speakers will be left unpowered and redundant!


(3) In connector #1, I can try to find the CAN B (High & Low) in the AGW but what to do with
a) electrical wake up
b) TEL Mute
c) MOST IN
d) MOST OUT

Do I have to loop MOST in/out since it is not in use and complete the MOST ring?

(4) What to do with connector #5, power supply and antenna
4 pins connector

(5) What to do with connector#6, MICROPHONE
4 pins connector

(6) What is connector #2 and #3 for? ( in AGW)
Need advice here


(7) PLEASE help me the PIN Layout for the NEW Comand.

I only have found the following

a) what is the 2 white fakra connector -> Radio antenna
b) what is fakra Green connector -> Video IN/TV/Reverse Camera
b) what is fakra Blue connector -> GPS antenna
b) what is fakra Curry(orchard yellow) connector -> GSM antenna

(8) There is one 18PIN connector (square in the middle)
What is this for? Please help!

(9) I need the Fakra Quadlock dual DIN PIN layout

I know there are 3 segments with 4 connectors

a) connector #1 T12 (12 pins) -> i think is reserved and not in use
b) connector #2 T12 (12 pins) -> Can-H, Can-L, Antenna??, Tel MUte
c) connector #3 (16 pins) -> Speakers & Power, 4 speakers only (FL,RL,FR & RR)
d) connector #4 (4 pins) MOST IN and OUT, there is a pair of male & female?

PLEASE HELP

also, Moondragon, or any1 else
Can you please tell me where to buy the connectors? Fakra, Quadlock?

PLEASE x 3

Cheers

Rick
 
#38 ·
(1) My old comand is taken out, there is only one connector in the dashboard in front, black square 4 pins, (MOST IN/OUT) P1=T.30, P2T.31, P3=wakeup & P4=reserved.

(2) At the Audio Gateway (N93/1), I found 6 connectors, only able to figure out a 4 nos,
Connector #4 i have center and sub woofer speakers, I can extend
a) Sub 1
b) Sub 2
c) Center
d) FR
e) RR
f) FL
g) RL
I can extend d,e,f & g to the BD0880 but how about a & b?
(this is where i think moondragon suggest HK Logic 7) but i will take this as a 2nd step

Question is now
a) SUB woofer
b) Center speakers will be left unpowered and redundant!
if you decide to use the outputs from the radio directly then you will not be able to power the subwoofer or center speaker without additional aftermarket amplifiers. You can take the full range speaker outputs from the NTG2.5 radio and use them to run the front and rear speakers. Then you use a converter to break out line level outputs form the speaker outputs and thos can then be used to run amplifiers that would power the subs and center speaker.

(3) In connector #1, I can try to find the CAN B (High & Low) in the AGW but what to do with
a) electrical wake up
b) TEL Mute
c) MOST IN
d) MOST OUT

Do I have to loop MOST in/out since it is not in use and complete the MOST ring?
CAN-B will need to be brought up to the front for the NTG2.5. If you do not have any other module on the MOST ring (e.g. you decide not to get the amplifier or the ipod UCI) then the radio must be programmed so that the MOST ring is disabled. Also electrical wakeup is only used to singal other MOST devices to turn on so it is not needed either.

Tel Mute is a mute input on the amplifier that mutes the system when the TELE-AID is operating (e.g. during an emergency or info call) if you want mute and do not get the amplifier then the mute wire gets run up to the radio instead.

(4) What to do with connector #5, power supply and antenna
4 pins connector

(5) What to do with connector#6, MICROPHONE
4 pins connector

(6) What is connector #2 and #3 for? ( in AGW)
Need advice here
#5 is the output to the antenna amplifier.. That would have to be wired so that the new radio turns on the antenna or wired so that the antenna is always on. The NTG2.5 radio does not have an antenna output as the antenna amp activation is done through the SAM on newer platforms.

#6 microphone connector is only used for tuning the amp. you dont have to worry about that.

#2,3 are the actual antenna connectors which would also need to be extended up to the new command radio.

(7) PLEASE help me the PIN Layout for the NEW Comand.

I only have found the following

a) what is the 2 white fakra connector -> Radio antenna
b) what is fakra Green connector -> Video IN/TV/Reverse Camera
b) what is fakra Blue connector -> GPS antenna
b) what is fakra Curry(orchard yellow) connector -> GSM antenna

(8) There is one 18PIN connector (square in the middle)
What is this for? Please help!

(9) I need the Fakra Quadlock dual DIN PIN layout

I know there are 3 segments with 4 connectors

a) connector #1 T12 (12 pins) -> i think is reserved and not in use
b) connector #2 T12 (12 pins) -> Can-H, Can-L, Antenna??, Tel MUte
c) connector #3 (16 pins) -> Speakers & Power, 4 speakers only (FL,RL,FR & RR)
d) connector #4 (4 pins) MOST IN and OUT, there is a pair of male & female?
the yellow FAKRA connector is not GSM but rather the bluetooth antenna.

The black 18 pin connector is the audio/video input/output connector. it has DVD A/V output as well as a dedicated audio input and video input.

The Quadlok connector uses only the white 12 pin plug and the main 16 pin connector. only one MOST pair is in use, the other is not.

the 12 pin white plug houses the telephone microphone inputs for voice recognition and bluetooth as well as the loop-through output for the teleaid module.

the main 16 pin connector only currently has 5 connections in use:

12V
GND
CANB-L
CANB-H
WAKE

I worked out all the NTG2.5 connections a while ago. If you really get serious about doing this I can get the exact pinouts for you.


Can you please tell me where to buy the connectors? Fakra, Quadlock?
FAKRA connectors and the RG-176 cable are available through electronics suppliers (in the US we use digikey or mouser).. you can also try newark.

Quadlok and the majority of connectors that you will need are all AMP/TYCO manufactured parts. the quadlok connectors are available (I have 100 of them in stock in case you want some). The majority of the parts including the pin connectors that go inside the quadlok housing are available from MB parts. certain connectors like the opposite gender connectors for the AGW are not going to be available at all in quantities under 3000 which means you will have to splice extensions on to your existing harnesses.
 
#44 ·
Hi Diesel
I have got a copy of wiring diagram but is a photocopy. It was attached to the COMAND i purchased. Can you pleas tell me which connector is J, JA, JB & JC in related to the connector at the back
#4 #3
|- - - - - - - - - - - --|
| xxxxxx | xxxxxx |
| xxxxxx | xxxxxx |
|-------------------- |
| [fuse] I I I I |
| |
| I I I I |
| O O |
| I I I I |
| O O |
| I I I I |
-----------------------
most #2 #1

Can you please tell me how to pair the connector #1,#2,#3,#4 with J, JA, JB & JC?

thank you
 
#45 ·
a) I do wish to have the PINOUT for the NTG2.5
b) PINOUT OF AGW
c) which wire to link from AGW connector to new NTG2.5
d) will the liguatronic work out of the box? or do i need any additional devices? How do i link up the MIC?
e) where could i purchase the connectors for the NTG2.5 and all opposite gender connectors for AGW
f) what do i do with the fibre optic (T/R) when unplugged from the AGW? Do i need just leave it alone or do i need to connect T to R to complete the MOST RING? IF so, is there a straight connector available?

PLEASE HELP ME
 
#46 ·
I don't see what you could do with the old MOST devices on the ring if/when you cannot connect those to the new head unit. But you should not need those either, why not unplug those all, including the power harness.

I assume you have the AGW wiring diagram too. I don't know a source other than MB for the connectors but if you wire the same signal from the AGW (or somewhere else) to the head unit where the same signal is assigned, you should be able to bring some life to the device. If the CAN-signals are different as mentioned earlier, you might still have some serious problems.
 
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