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Strange starter issue????

3K views 36 replies 10 participants last post by  tdsilk 
#1 ·
Hello,

My 76 450slc usually starts with no problem from cold start. However, there are occassions where it won't start initially, then when I try to start again
immediately there's nothing. If I wait a few minutes (approx. 2-3) it will start. Has anyone ever experience this and if so what was the fix?

Thanks,
Troy
 
#2 ·
The cold start valve explains the easy cold start - It makes the mixture richer for the cold start.

The warm and hot starts are most probaply with poor/weak mixtures. Check air leaks and if not any check the air measure plate home and basic positions. If air plate has too much free play it does not press the FD plunger before strong engine running.

BR
 
#11 ·
I think my starter issue has resurfaced and this time it may be a bad starter. Now when I try to start the car I get a single click. The battery seems to be strong and I even tried to jump start and still a single click. May be time for a new starter??
 
#15 ·
Checked the connections to the starter and everything was secure. However, there was a wire that wasn't connected (see attached pic). I'm not sure if it's suppose to be connected or not? I also noticed some fluid leaking from the transmission area. The fluid didn't start leaking until I jacked up the car. Does this look like tranny (see attached photo) fluid? I also put a voltmeter on the battery and it tested at 11.98 volts. I think I need at least 12+ volts to crank the car. I still just get 1 click when I try to crank it.
 

Attachments

#16 ·
11.98 at rest is fine. That wire (#2) is suspect....is it attached at all? Even a strand or two?

Trani oil is red....what colour is that drip? And the fact that it is dripping when jacked up means it is probably puddling somewhere.

If my Benz didn't drip a bit I'd be worried it was out of oil......
 
#20 ·
If you can get in there with a tool, just put a new connector on the end. That way, you have the problem fixed, you won't have to worry about it again.

Just as a tip: You can go to a better auto parts store, and get a 'weatherproof' connector. These are connectors that have a piece of heat-shrink tubing that has 'hot-melt' glue inside it. When you heat it up, the tubing shrinks and the glue melts giving you a watertight seal.

You might want to have your battery checked, a charged, good, lead-acid battery should be around 13.5 volts. If your charging system has something wrong (say, such as a loose connection), you might not be charging it. Your problem with the bad connector could be the cause of both your problems. I noticed that my car was harder to start when the battery was going out on me last spring.


Just a suggestion, hope it helps.
Scott
 
#22 ·
Ok, I was able to get into the online service manual, and do some tracing on the wiring schematic. If that is the smaller of the two wires hooked to that termnal, you have the root cause of your charging system problems. That is the main battery voltage feed from the alternator. When it's not making contact, the voltage from the alternator isn't being fed back to the battery, to recharge it. Other connections may take some of the voltage to power you while the car is running, but the battery won't charge.

The blue box on the attached close-up from the schematic is the alternator end of the wire, while the red box is the starter end. You'll see that one wire goes from the battery to the diagnostic plug to the starter, that is the main power to crank the starter (largest cable) and the other wire (the loose one) is going to the Alternator (the schematic is chopped up a bit, so some items are cut up). The smaller wire is the feed from the alternator that sends juice back to the battery to recharge it.

Get that thing back home where it belongs, and your life should rapidly improve. At least in this area.


Edit: Finally got the upload to work.
 

Attachments

#23 ·
OK, what's going on here? my upload isn't showing.

Trying again

Edit:

Still no upload of drawing, do uploads have to be approved by mods???


Edit:
Ok, got it figured out. Had to add the file extension. *nix doesn't rely on them like the DOS based systems do, so the programs don't add them automatically.
 
#26 ·
Finally had a chance to try to fix the starter again and when I jacked the car I noticed fluid leaking again. It sounds like it's being pooled and leaks when the car is tilted. I've added video here:
Maybe someone can tell me what this fluid is and where it's coming from?

Thanks,
Troy
 
#27 ·
.


That looks like engine oil? If so it seems too much to be a rear main seal.


Check your cam cover gaskets. There's a block drain in the center valley under the intake manifold. If there's a cam cover leak into the valley that oil drains down the bell housing at some point. Check the CLAP thread for a pic of the valley drain.
 
#29 ·
That there is some smart thinking. I was trying to think of where in the world oil could be pooling that high on the engine. You nailed that Q.

At first I was thinking of dirty coolant, but it really does look like oil.

That would have to be the filthiest trans fluid, and it would make no sense that thanks fluid would leak from the front of the trans when the car is tilted up in the front.

Oil from the valley is a good bet. ... But how it gets there is the interesting part. Is the head gasket more likely to leak pressurized oil?
Auto part Engine Dish


Notice that in addition to the lack of oil pressure, the oil would have to get around the intake manifold gasket before getting into the valley.

The valve cover gaskets certainly are easier to check though. Right?




Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com Free App
 
#32 ·
Engine oil...hmmm. When the liquid first appeared it had a gasoline smell to it. I guess I will address this issue after figuring out the starter wire issue. I wish I could pull the entire wire out and replace it. However, it looks like it's a bear to pull out. Thanks for all the help.
 
#36 ·
I finally got back around to this issue and was able to gain better access to the cable wire by removing the oil filter. What's strange is when drained the oil there was at least 3-4 quarts, so if the other liquid was oil where did it come from. I will be adding the wire connector this weekend so maybe I will have more answers.
 
#37 ·
Added the new wire connector and reconnected everything and the car started without issue. It appears that the two thick wires connect to the same left port on the left side of the solenoid. I was mistaken about the oil. It looks like it takes about 8 quarts. It's still a mystery about the liquid pooling and leaking when the car was jacked. I will have to keep my eye on this. Thanks for all the help.
 
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